April 18th, 2002

Benefits to Starting in Klein?

Brock says, 'is there acctually a benifit from starting in klien like there is with other places?'

LadyAce says, 'there's a helpfile that explains it'

Boreas waves hello to the world!

Brock says, 'the name of the helpfile?'

LadyAce says, ''help klein''

Brock says, 'ahh, hehe, im having a stupid day, sorry'

LadyAce says, 'it's described in an IC manner, so read between the lines.'

Kaige says, 'actually I think help hometown_klein would be the one he wants, isn't it?'

Kaige says, 'and I don't think either mention the specific klein bonus to certain skills.'

Kaige looks up into the sky and ponders.

LadyAce says to Kaige, 'it's implied a bit, but it could be updated'

Kaige nods solemnly.

Brock says, 'so there is a bonus but its only slight from what I gather or at least, it seems slight, got it'

Kaige nods her agreement with Brock.

LadyAce says, 'there's a 'hitroll' sort of bonus to particular skills'

Brock nods solemnly.

LadyAce says, 'i.e. certain fight skills are more likely to land.'

Korgan says, 'dont help a lot tho..'

Brock says, 'ok, well, thats all I needed to know, thanks'

Brock waves happily.

LadyAce says, 'there's only so much we could boost it without overbalancing.'

Crashing Still?

Sigrid says, 'why's this place crash a tick before I got the skyblade a few days ago?'

Sigrid grins evilly.

LadyAce comforts Sigrid.

Kaige says to Sigrid, 'bad karma?'

Kaige comforts Sigrid.

Sigrid says, 'hrm'

Rowane stares into space and slowly pulls the Legendmud Crash Button into his sleeve.

Boreas giggles at Rowane.

Sigrid snarls at Rowane.

Tobias laughs with amusement.

Red1Guest grins slightly and peers about the room.

Boreas gets Intolerable Lag from a snowstorm.

Boreas ponders Intolerable Lag's existence.

LadyAce says, 'we're still having some frustrating instability, as posted elsewhere...the coders are still coding like mad to eliminate it'

Rowane chuckles politely.

Boreas puts Intolerable Lag in a snowstorm.

Sigrid says, 'yea, I know, I took a chance, bugger it when i get unlucky'

Rowane nods his agreement with Sigrid.

Rowane says to Sigrid, 'that's like a long quest too'

Rowane says, 'So what happend with the Mud Hanging, is it the same problem?'

Kaige shakes her head.

Kaige says, 'no, that was somethign on an OS level.'

Rowane nods his agreement with Kaige.

Will Legend Ever Be Graphical?

Red1Guest says, 'Well, I know I'm just a guest, but I really love how this works (the extremely modified DIKU and all). Are there any plans to move LegendMUD to a MMORPG - Graphical setting?'

Rowane wrinkles his nose with distaste.

Red1Guest chuckles.

Pentara goes EEK! in distress.

Kaige says, 'nope. been there done that and text is MUCH more powerful, and not to mention the setting and stuff is kind of an acquired taste.'

Rowane says, 'Isn't that what Ultima Online is for?'

Red1Guest says, 'I knew that wouldn't go over well.'

Kaige says, 'Besides, Ptah does the MMOs in the family these days.'

Tobias laughs with amusement.

Rowane tickles Red1Guest.

LadyAce says, 'I think in general, our skills aren't in graphics, they're in words'

Kaige nods her agreement with LadyAce.

Korgan nods his agreement with LadyAce.

Red1Guest says, 'Mm. Ptah, Designer Dragon, Raph Koster... I understand.'

LadyAce says, 'I don't think we have a staff of artists that could render the world as well as we describe it with writing.'

Kaige says, 'we're basically a hobbyist set up. we don't have $$ to pay for real artistic talent'

Red1Guest says, 'Ah true.'

Kaige nods solemnly.

Rowane says, 'Though I must admit, I would look positively stunning sending a mob flying with a powerful bash in graphics'

Rowane combs his hair - what a dashing specimen!

Boreas says, 'or a gust of wind'

Tobias says, 'then damcapping ^_~'

Sigrid blinks.

Rowane says to Tobias, 'that might be too rated r'

Rowane giggles.

LadyAce says, 'you say that ... but why? Because your imagination is filling in the blanks'

Tobias laughs with amusement.

Korgan says to Tobias, 'id enjoy ripping to shreds more'

Boreas nods her agreement with LadyAce.

Kaige says, 'but just think how slow your machines would run when i poofed in with my horde of gerbils'

Kaige throws her head back and cackles with insane glee!

LadyAce says, 'If we went and drew it, what's the difference between us and Halflife or whatnot?'

Sigrid says, 'after getting used to it all these strange symbols on your screen turn into pictures really'

LadyAce giggles at Kaige.

Boreas says, 'absolutely. The text world can be much more immersive. It is like reading a novel.'

Rowane says to LadyAce, 'imagiwha?'

LadyAce pats Rowane on the head.

Red1Guest says, 'Oh, I understand. I've built before for several MUDs.'

Tobias says, 'I think text is just easier to play casually, too.'

Kaine says, 'I do enjoy ssseeing how people envision themselvesss on the Yahoo club page, I wish there were more...'

Pentara says, 'I get bored with graphical games. I don't get bored of this MUD - I keep coming back. I think it is because I can use my imagination here.'

Vendetta pointedly ignores LadyAce. Bit chilly in here, eh what?

Kaine nods his agreement with Pentara.

More on Crashes and Instability

Red1Guest says, 'The code here is extremely powerful... You're having instability problems?'

Kaige says, 'some memory was mis/reallocated over the years, and we uncovered some of it recently in spots where it causes really ugly problems.'

Korgan says to Kaige, 'REALY ugly'

Red1Guest says, 'Ech. Ouch Kaige.'

LadyAce says, 'a little buildup in the arteries :)'

Kaige nods her agreement with Red1Guest.

LadyAce says, 'but it does mean more frequent repops, and the cores are mostly useful for finding & removing each problem'

Kaige says to Korgan, 'some uglier than others too'

Korgan nods his agreement with Kaige.

Korgan shudders.

Kaige says, 'now that some debugging code got added'

Kaige giggles.

LadyAce nods her agreement with Kaige.

Sigrid says, 'oh'

Rowane says, 'someone must have forgotten to close a bracket on an if or while loop'

Rowane ducks to the ground.

Wagon Quest and Vehicles in General

Pentara says, 'speaking of problems... there was a broken quest a while back. Is it fixed yet?'

Kaige says, 'umm...hard to say without knowing which one.'

Kaige chuckles politely.

Pentara says, 'the wagon....'

Red1Guest chuckles politely.

Kaige says, 'nope. haven't gotten them fully functional yet, so that quest is still out of commission'

Pentara nods solemnly.

Kaine says, 'How long hasss that one been out of commission?'

Kaige says, 'it's to the point that it no longer crashed the mud if you attempt it, but we've got some issues with vehicles in general and specifically the ones that you harness horses and stuff to'

Rowane nods solemnly.

Rowane grumbles.

Red1Guest blinks and mouths, "Vehicles?", as if in awe.

Kaige has created a Sopwith Pup!

Tobias grins evilly.

Kaine spent a lot of time trying to work it out, didnt realise it was broken.

Kaige pats a Sopwith Pup affectionately.

Boreas says to Red1Guest, 'there are cars and planes'

Rowane says, 'short term memory'

Rowane giggles.

Korgan says, 'and balloons'

Boreas nods her agreement with Korgan.

Kaige says to Kaine, 'I'll try to remember to post about that being out of commission again. It had been on the welcome board.'

Rowane says, 'and submarines!'

Kaige says, 'we also have plans for wagons and carts and stuff like that.'

RejectGives and Charms?

Sigrid says, 'is it on purpose that when you have the config rejectgives turn on, doppels can still give you stuff? I noticed some mobs can too as a part of a quest.. nice.. but doppels really?'

Rowane says, 'or so the helpfile seems to indicate'

Kaige nods her agreement with Sigrid.

Kaine nods his agreement with Rowane.

Kaige says, 'yes, mobs can still give you items because of quests and stuff'

Sigrid says, 'hm, yes, but doppels?'

LadyAce says, 'doppels are just mobs as far as the code can tell right now -- it does seem reasonable to special case them'

Kaige says, 'we can probably case out charmed mobs from that tho. but it hasn't come up before that I recall'

Kaige nods her agreement with LadyAce.

LadyAce says, 'might even be on the to-do list already'

LadyAce will check....

Sigrid says, 'joy'

Rowane says, 'can you order doppels to give things to other people and bypass their reject gives I wonder?'

LadyAce says, 'hm, I don't see it. Put it in on the idea command?'

Sigrid nods her agreement with Rowane.

Sigrid says, 'yes'

Rowane nods solemnly.

Rowane says, 'Need to remember that gem'

LadyAce says, 'oops, yup, it's on the todo list already "rejectgives should reject gives from mobs charmed by PCs"'

Dressing Doppels?

Red1Guest says, 'I forgot my earlier question. =) So I'll ask this one: Doppels? A spell, correct?'

Kaige nods solemnly.

Red1Guest says, 'Easy, see?'

Kaige says, 'an illusory replica of yourself'

LadyAce smiles at Red1Guest.

Red1Guest says, 'Very interesting.'

Kaige says, 'it's an interesting twist in pk/pvp too'

Sigrid says to Red1Guest, 'they be good te slice if yer self esteem be down a bit, bugger o' a lot of damcaps on 'em'

Rowane says, 'Idea, we should have the option to create our doppels with clothing, doppel Rowane is awful bashful'

Tobias laughs with amusement.

Pentara curtseys before Huginn gracefully.

LadyAce says to Rowane, 'could be cute, as an extra option costing extra etc. Suggest it on idea :)'

Huginn nods his agreement with Pentara.

Rowane nods his agreement with LadyAce.

Boreas says, 'why not just make armor?'

Sigrid says, 'bugger that, i like naked peoples around'

Boreas says, 'armor of light, I mean'

Korgan nods his agreement with Sigrid.

Korgan grins evilly.

Sigrid grins evilly at Korgan.. wonder what she's thinking...

Korgan bows deeply.

LadyAce says to Vendetta, 'your turn'

Sigrid says to Korgan, 'too bad ye can' make doppels eh?'

Rowane says to Boreas, 'hmm, maybe'

Vendetta smiles happily.

Korgan snickers softly.

Death from Posion During PK?

Vendetta says, 'This question mainly to kaige.'

Vendetta says, 'Its about PK, and it happened to my alt.'

Vendetta says, 'My question is that, why does a character in a straight out fights with another character lose 450K xp more because he died of the poison at 0/636hp'

LadyAce has already given him her answer and thus is leaving this to Kaige :)

Kaige says, 'because the code doesn't track a "fight" longer than the actual combat rounds are taking place. So death by poision is always the same cost. Similar to bleeding, or drowning. etc.'

Vendetta says, 'So do you think its fair?'

Boreas says, 'isn't death by poison/bleeding/drowning also 1/8?'

Vendetta shakes his head in disagreement with Boreas.

Vendetta says, 'not poison.'

Boreas says, 'if not, then the help death file needs updating'

Kaige says, 'I think there's lots of ways available to cure poison/bleeding/and avoid drowning.'

LadyAce says, 'definitely gives a value to anti-poison measures, since the cost is higher'

Kaige says, 'it's just not really feasible to track the fights longer without some serious overhead costs.'

Vendetta says to Kaige, 'In this particular case neither of us fled, and I remind you I was stunned at 0/636 wuith him hitting me in the room'

Boreas says, 'Deaths caused by nature such as poison, bleeding or drowning will take away a max of 375k or 1/8th what it takes ...'

Kaige says to Vendetta, 'yet combat ceased to continue.'

Vendetta says to Kaige, 'because a tick ended between the 2 rounds'

Vendetta says to Kaige, 'so I'm not asking you to change the code, I am asking you to return the unfairly lost xp.'

Huginn says to Vendetta, 'it was bad luck.. it doesn't happen that often.. Is it really that big a deal?'

Vendetta says to Huginn, '400K xp is a big deal, but it shouldn't be for imms.'

Kaige says, 'but we can't sit and reimb everyone who may or may not have been affected by that and do it fairly.'

Huginn says to Vendetta, 'you're 50th level .. 400k isn't that much of your time. You've probably spent more time protesting than it would have taken to make it up'

Kaige says, 'so what you might perceive as fair, wouldn't be to someone else.'

Vendetta says, 'so, you're saying too bad, what kind of a crappy example does that set? I was at hp.'

Vendetta says to Huginn, 'That's BS>'

Kaige says, 'it's saying if you're going to fight against people with poisoned attacks, be able to cure poison.'

Huginn says to Vendetta, 'no not really'

Tobias says, '400k doesn't take much time at all.'

Tobias says, 'though its still a bother.'

Vendetta says, 'I can't cure poison at 0!!!'

Vendetta says, 'the thing is, it doesn't happen often, no one will be offended.'

LadyAce says, 'I think this needs to be taken to a different forum, since Kaige is your recourse at this point.'

LadyAce says, 'any further comments can go to mudmail or e-mail or whatnot'

Vendetta says, 'I wonder if the people here agree or not.'

Vendetta shrugs in response to LadyAce's words.

Proposing "Abandoned" Areas?

Rowane says, 'Err, when we haven't seen a builder have an update on his or her area in a long time...is it ok to send in a proposal to do the same area?'

Rowane says, 'Long time or ...never at all'

LadyAce says, 'well, the right thing to do first in any case is talk to Sandra'

Rowane nods solemnly.

Rowane says, 'I see'

LadyAce says, 'there's a very tenuous line to be walked there, and talking to Sandra is the right first step'

Rowane nods solemnly.

Rowane says, 'easily done'

LadyAce says, 'for any area idea really, but particularly one that's already been approved for someone else to work on'

Average Players/Target Audience

Red1Guest says, 'How many players on average do you have here? And how long have you been open?'

Kaige says, 'we've been open since Feb 14th '94 so 8 years.'

LadyAce says, 'lots of time to accumulate lots of stuff, including memory leaks :)'

Kaige says, 'and we have a page with stats available at www.legendmud.org/stats/'

Red1Guest says, 'Ah, very good.'

LadyAce says, 'I'd call us 'mid-sized' as such things go'

Kaige says, 'but typically anywhere from 20-60 people lately depending on the time of day.'

Red1Guest ponders, "1994, just about the time I started MUDding."

Red1Guest grins.

Kaige says, 'a few of us started in 92'

LadyAce says, 'big enough to support a lot of clans and skills, small enough to let people generally know most of the people online'

Red1Guest nods.

Kaige says, 'and do stuff like this =)'

Sigrid says, 'I don know anies'

Kaige says to Sigrid, 'stop snarlin' at people and scaring them away'

Kaige giggles at Sigrid.

Tobias laughs with amusement.

Sigrid grins evilly.

Tobias lurks around Sigrid ominously - glad he's not after you!

Tobias blinks.

Sigrid says, 'peoples don be recognizin frien;y snarls'

Red1Guest says, 'This is really great. The community appears to be quite strong. Tell me, what would you consider your MUDtype to be? RP, HnS, Social?'

Tobias says, 'Was that the right person, or does more than one person here have the keyword sig?'

Sandra says, 'yep, that sums us up =P'

Tobias peers around the room intently.

Boreas says, 'I think Legend is really a mishmash, with something for everybody'

Kaige says, 'A utopian mix with something for everyone?'

Kaige giggles.

LadyAce says, 'we're really a mix. Every time we do a type survey, that's what we see'

Kaige says, 'yeah. The andreasen version of the bartle player types results for here in instresting'

LadyAce says, 'We have a less hard core PK atmosphere than we have in the past, so I would say that we don't support that extreme. Nor can you advance purely by RPing, really.'

Boreas says, 'but the excellent fighting code still does attract pkers'

Kaige says, 'but a nice rounded mix of everything.'

Non-Combat Exp Possible?

Red1Guest says, 'Is it possible to advance in power without having to "play to crush"?'

Kaige says, 'we've got lots of quests, but not nearly enough to do that "quickly" with taking a "pacifist" approach.'

Red1Guest says, 'Ah, so, code advancement requires monster slaying. Fights are like a typical mud fight?'

Tobias says, 'yousmash/hesmash, till you die.'

Boreas says, 'well, you can be a 'ealer and never really fight'

Kaige says, 'not all advancement no. you can get xp for killing, exploring or questing.'

Emrysia once got to level 3 by just questing (with an alt)

Kaige says, 'but the majority of it yes.'

Red1Guest says, 'Exactly. Alright.'

LadyAce says, 'there's a level where we've kept some of that diku-esque simiplicity in fights'

Sigrid says, 'the be nothin typical bout fightin, every battle be special every different enemy gots different tastes o' blood'

Kaige says, 'as far as what it looks like... well, we have different levels of fight messages from cheesy diku ones to more verbose and unique ones.'

Ranged/Positional Combat?

Red1Guest says, 'Have you ever considered adding ranging to your fights?'

Red1Guest points at DragonRealms as an example.

Tobias says, 'ranging? Like, striking with longer weapons, etc?'

LadyAce says, 'positional combat is on the 'to do' list, but hasn't been touched in a while.'

Kaige says, 'like guns?'

Red1Guest says, 'Exactly.'

Kaige nods her agreement with LadyAce.

Red1Guest says, 'Three tiers.'

Red1Guest says, 'Ranged, Polearm, Melee'

Red1Guest says, 'Bonuses, special moves, and negatives in each.'

Tobias says, 'Heh. I'd be worried about some dexy person using polearms to keep me at bay before I can do anything ^_~'

Boreas says, 'there are ranged weapons...'

Tobias ducks to the ground.

Red1Guest says, 'Add commands like advance and retreat'

Kaige says, 'plans for it,. but not enough coder time and ability'

Kaige nods her agreement with Red1Guest.

Kaige says, 'circle as well was on the list'

Red1Guest says, 'Understood.'

LadyAce says, 'in general, like every mud, we have more ideas than time'

Red1Guest says, 'Like any software project really.'

Kaige says, 'we do have wary and aggressive stances for players as well, a step in that direction, but not a big one.'

Kaige nods her agreement with Red1Guest.

Source Language/Release?

Red1Guest says, 'The code is in what?'

Kaige says, 'ansi C'

Red1Guest says, 'Mm. A new language to learn. =D'

Red1Guest says, 'Platform?'

LadyAce says, 'Linux'

Red1Guest says, 'I could learn that. ANSI C you said?'

Kaige says, 'with support for various other flavors.'

LadyAce says, 'cross compiles on BSD, solaris, windows, Mac OS X'

Red1Guest says, 'Your code is released?'

Kaige cheers for OS X.

Kaige shakes her head.

Kaige says, 'and won't be for a while.'

Red1Guest says, 'Ah okay.'

Red1Guest says, 'I'm not asking for it.'

Red1Guest says, 'I would look at it to learn, really.'

Kaige was just saying, since that's a typical faq =)

LadyAce says, 'we try to code in such a style that the code would be releasable, especially lately.'

Kaige says, 'prolly not. what we'd eventually release would be something highly customizeable, but I doubt this place would ever sit at a dead standstill for very long as long as it was open.'

LadyAce says, 'release is one goal among many, and it's a good stylistic principle to organize our thoughts around.'

Red1Guest says, 'Is there a "finishing" happening?'

Red1Guest says, 'Or an "ending"? Or do you just want to release it?'

LadyAce says, 'I think we all expect to run this place until we're old and gray :)'

Red1Guest says, 'Heh.'

Red1Guest says, 'For a second there, I thought I had asked a really bad question. =D'

Kaine chuckles politely.

LadyAce says, 'nah. I think we've never really thought about an endpoint, or at least not in any discussions I've been in'

LadyAce shrugs helplessly.

Kaige says, 'heh. nope.'

Sigrid says, 'there be no bad questions, just bad answers'

LadyAce says, 'every now and then I wonder if I'm going to do this forever, but I never imagine Legend closing :)'

Red1Guest says, 'No bad questions until the immy's zap you.'

Red1Guest grins.

Kaige nonchalantly flips the Great Flaming Spork of Evil Death.

Kaige giggles.

LadyAce says, 'well, we're pretty unlikely to zap you in any case :P'

Boreas says, 'there are bad questions...'

Sigrid says, 'that be no bad question, that do be a bad answer.. the zappin'

Tobias says, 'bad question example: 'Skilltrees done yet?' *flee*'

Kaige says to Boreas, 'I think we do field most of them fairly well tho. '

Kaige shrugs philosophically.

Boreas nods her agreement with Tobias.

Kaige bonks Tobias on the head with the Great Flaming Spork of Evil Death.

Red1Guest chuckles, shaking his head in amusement.

LadyAce giggles.

Tobias laughs with amusement.

LadyAce says, 'If you ask something you already know the answer to, just to poke at us, we might poke back :)'

Skilltrees?

Red1Guest says, 'Skilltrees?'

Tobias says to Red1Guest, 'Spiffy project that's not really...advancing.'

Boreas pokes LadyAce in the ribs.

Red1Guest says, 'Elaborate on the concept?'

LadyAce says, 'it's a term for a group of advances that are in planning but progress is slow'

Kaige says, 'instead of just a big pool of skills to choose from, we've been wanting to reorganize them into logical groups with certain skills being prereqs for others.'

LadyAce says, 'a more complex systems of skills and skill dependancies.'

Kaige says, 'it's our "local myth"'

Sigrid gets a skill tree myth from a fog of winter.

Sigrid waves a skill tree myth.

Sigrid puts a skill tree myth in a fog of winter.

Moo chortles with amusement.

Huginn says to Sigrid, 'nice container'

Boreas peers intently at a fog of winter.

Kaine still believes.

Boreas says, 'my archived str fighters believe'

Coupons/Strings/Restrings?

Red1Guest says, 'Restrings require "coupons"'

LadyAce says, 'to do it without creating pre-set paths for people, not easy'

Red1Guest said the last statement as a question.

LadyAce says, 'strings require coupons, restrings transfer a string from one item to another'

Kaige says, 'heheh.. "coupons" started out as a string themselves when the imm was too busy to do a string on th espot, or the person couldn't think of a description for the object'

Red1Guest says, 'And restrings are free?'

LadyAce says, 'strings being customized item descs put on to regular items'

LadyAce says, 'sure, it's just a transfer.'

LadyAce says, 'string your weapon as a shiny sword, get a better weapon, restring the name to the new better weapon'

Q&A Sessions/Topics/Perspectives

Kaige says, 'btw, if anyone else has questions, don't be shy about raising your hands'

Kaige says to Red1Guest, 'and no that isn't a cue to stop asking either.'

LadyAce giggles at Kaige.

LadyAce nods her agreement with Kaige.

Red1Guest grins, "I didn't want to dominate the conversation..."

Kaine says, 'Good questionsss, worth listening to.'

Red1Guest says, 'I'm just a newbie!'

Red1Guest chuckles.

Kaige says, 'it's interesting to see the questions from a fresh perspective on it too'

LadyAce says, 'these really range...sometimes we have tons of questions, sometimes we have a few that take a while each, sometimes we have controversy, sometimes we have newbies...'

LadyAce says, 'these sessions I mean'

Boreas says, 'I like the controversy'

Boreas ducks to the ground.

LadyAce giggles at Boreas.

Kaige says, 'sometimes we have lots of questions where the answer is boring because it's "read the helpfile or please note that on bug or idea for feedback'

Sigrid just likes checkin the gods out so she's prepared for ragnarok.

Boreas says, 'or questions where the answer is skill trees'

Kaige nods her agreement with Boreas.

More on Vehicles

Red1Guest says, 'Vehicles are specialized mobprogs? Or code bits in their own right?'

Red1Guest says, 'And are some "interactive"?'

LadyAce says, 'they're objects with special code bits'

LadyAce says, 'objects are generally not interactive'

Kaige says, 'not unless they're fixed in a room or small set of rooms.'

Red1Guest nods.

Kaige says, 'we have our own acts system (we don't use the released mobprogs)'

Wagons & Oceans?

Kaine says, 'Will wagonsss be restricted to land massesss?'

Kaige shakes her head.

Kaige nods her agreement with Kaine.

Kaine says, 'Would it be possible to add cargo baysss to the aeroplanesss perhapsss?'

Kaige says, 'I don't think we have the current ability to put one vehicle type in another.. say a cart/wagon/or even bicycle in another, say a groupboat'

Kaine nods solemnly.

LadyAce says, 'seems possible. Same with boats (down in the hold!)'

Sigrid says, 'oy!'

Kaine says to LadyAce, 'That would be really good.'

Kaige says, 'but that's because of how you "use" vehicles, since you usually can't pick one up, but have to sit/board it'

LadyAce says to Kaine, 'that cover it for ya? :)'

Red1Guest says, 'Time for a new linked list Kaige.'

Kaine nods solemnly.

Kaige says to Kaine, 'we DO have several groupboats that do have holds for just that purpose, but right now you'd have to unload and reload into it to take it across and get a new wagon'

Water_walk and Underwater?

Sigrid says, 'when you're affected by waterwalk you cant dive'

Tobias glares at nothing in particular.

Sigrid says, 'you can when you have a boat.. which is strange'

Kaige says, 'your feet keep floating to the surface'

Kaige giggles.

Tobias netcard just stopped working

Kaige nods her agreement with Sigrid.

Tobias says, 'And maybe I'll learn to type! ^_~'

Kaige says, 'I think it's on the list.'

Sigrid says, 'but.. if you have waterwalk but stand in a boat you cant..'

LadyAce says, 'yea, I'd take the boat thing as a bug'

Kaige says, 'because the code checks what affects you have and water_walk is cased out as a "nono"'

Kaige says, 'boats don't give you an affect when you use them the same way'

Sigrid says, 'i just figure hiding your waterwalky feet in a boat might make you able to do it'

Kaige says, 'it's just an item type you have associated with your char'

Sigrid says, 'go under that is'

Kaige nods solemnly.

Building and Acts System Quirks

LadyAce says to Red1Guest, 'You were asking about Oasis, which I personally haven't heard of?'

Kaige says, 'is that the building tool?'

Red1Guest says, 'Yes.'

Kaige nods solemnly.

Red1Guest says, 'In game real-time building utility.'

Rusalka says, 'hm'

LadyAce says, 'ew :P'

Rusalka says, 'sounds cool'

LadyAce jumps in the air and slams a thunderous high-5 with Rusalka!

Rusalka giggles.

LadyAce says, 'My experience with those is that the editor is terrible'

LadyAce says, 'vi and BBEdit are so powerful....'

Kaige says, 'nope. we don't. we have pretty highly customized area code and our mobprogs are embedded in the area files themselves.'

Rusalka giggles at LadyAce.

Red1Guest says, 'The editor is... so so. =)'

Kaige says, 'and we like having a bit of protection from putting in nasty crashing acts so we have a testmud to test things out on before they go live.'

Rusalka nods her agreement with Kaige.

Red1Guest says, 'Mobprogs are area imbedded?'

Kaige nods her agreement with Red1Guest.

Kaige says, 'we have our own version of them they were written about the same time as Worlds of Carnage was putting theirs out for release as mobprogs'

Red1Guest says, 'Interesting approach. Why do you do that?'

Kaige says, 'why? because one of our goals was to have builders not have to be coders to create successful, creative areas.'

Rusalka nods solemnly.

LadyAce says, 'having them in area files makes them builder-determined, no need to fuss with the code (if I understand the question)'

Red1Guest says, 'Ah... Maybe I'm misunderstanding the encapsulation.'

Kaige says, 'and it's much easier to associate a snippet of code with the mob/room itself from that perspective, easier to debug and trace through someone else's code too.'

Red1Guest says, 'You can create a mobprog in one area file and then utilize it in other different ones, right?'

Kaige nods solemnly.

LadyAce says, 'area files are big text files, and look like a combination of HTML and perl (imho)'

Kaige says, 'yup. we have several "utility" files like that.'

LadyAce says, 'usually it's all in the one file'

Red1Guest says, 'One giant source doc. =)'

Kaige nods solemnly.

Kaige says, 'yeah. we don't have .wld, .mob, .obj'

LadyAce says, 'well, each area has a separate file, but it's usually self-contained with a few calls to the utility files'

Kaige says, 'just one big .are file.'

LadyAce says, 'makes it easy to just test your own stuff'

Boreas waves happily.

Red1Guest says, 'Quicker, perhaps easier to debug... Wouldn't it make code understanding more difficult though?'

LadyAce says, 'we do version control with cvs btw, which I highly recommend, to everyone and anyone, as a superduper tool.'

Red1Guest is playing Devil's Advocate.

Red1Guest says, 'Version control... nice. =)'

LadyAce says, 'the difficulty of finding 25 C programmers is much harder than finding 5 :)'

LadyAce says, 'in general, I think our guys figure it out'

LadyAce says, 'the builder syntax is easy to pick up, the time goes into making the areas so detailed'

Kaige says, 'well you also then have everything in one place, and you don't have to take as many notes or possibility of filename duplication that way either'

Kaige says, 'it's more like regular mud commands and pseudo code than real C or other building languages... lots of ENGLISH instead of numbers'

Red1Guest says, 'Not like I'm one to talk, I write pretty spagetti code. =D'

LadyAce says, 'the code loads up the area, processes it, and turns it into what it needs, preprocessing is pretty vital'

Sigrid says, 'numbers are good'

Kaige says to Sigrid, 'numbers are confusing when you get too many of them'

Red1Guest says, 'Much like a mini-complier within.'

Sigrid says to Kaige, 'no more than english'

Sigrid still doesn't get it when she get too much english at a time.

LadyAce says, 'well, it's one thing to see '2349384923'

Kaige says, 'and another to see DETECT_EVIL|DETECT_INVIS|DETECT_MAGIC|SANCTUARY|INFRARED|PLAGUE|POISON|SNEAK| CHARM|BALANCE|SWIMMER|DETECT_ILLUSION|NO_INVIS|ANIMAL'

LadyAce says, 'and another to see IMMUNE_PIERCE'

Kaige says to Sigrid, 'which is easier to look at and say "Ahh.. I know what all that is'

LadyAce nods her agreement with Kaige.

LadyAce says, 'If we did it all in numbers, ugh....we'd have to separate out all the powers of 2'

Kaige doesn't think instantly in binary numbers.

Kaige says, 'lots of calculator time'

Kaige shudders.

Kaige has done it that way.. NO THANK YOU.

Sigrid says, 'ok, so I guess discussing if english is hard to understand is pointless, but numbers.. or at least the ones you use .. well they're just more native to me'

Rusalka blinks.

Kaige nods her agreement with Sigrid.

Red1Guest says, 'Binary strings for effects attached to each item?'

Kaige says, 'well bits set, yeah'

LadyAce says, 'a whole lot of stuff is stored as powers of 2'

Kaige nods solemnly.

LadyAce says, 'which the code turns into english before we see it, lucky for us'

Red1Guest says, 'And 2351343 is the hex rep?'

LadyAce says, 'oh, I made that number up :) it's just that the powers of 2 are added when they're stored, and I find that I don't innately separate powers of 2 accurately :)'

LadyAce says, 'maybe Sigrid does tho :)'

LadyAce winks suggestively at Sigrid.

Kaige says, 'Sadist can'

Kaige shudders.

Kaige giggles.

Sigrid says, 'eh? i do what?'

Sigrid says, 'er, no i mostly slice'

Kaige giggles at Sigrid.

Modifying An Existing Code Base?

Red1Guest says, 'When you starting coding for the MUD, what did you find you REALLY needed to be in the base build of the code that wasn't there.'

Kaige says, 'umm.. that wouldn't be for me.. but Sadist. But I'll try.'

Kaige looks up into the sky and ponders.

Red1Guest says, 'Wait. There's a coder named Sadist?'

Kaige says, 'he's our original coder extraordinaire... he's the one that ripped it down to bare bones and started building it back up.'

Kaige nods her agreement with Red1Guest.

Kaige says, 'one of the two original imps.'

LadyAce says, 'of course :) what else would he be named?? :)'

Kaige says, 'Charity and Sadist.'

Kaige giggles.

Red1Guest says, 'Sick and demented. But absolutely hilarious. =)'

Blue1Guest says to LadyAce, 'masochist, I would imagine.'

Kaige says, 'he was also the original lead coder on UO'

LadyAce says to Blue1Guest, 'nah, that's builders'

Kaige says, 'but anyway...'

Rusalka giggles.

Kaige says, 'the first things we did were rip out all the stock skills/spells, and stuff like that.'

LadyAce says, 'no beastly fidos! no newbie school!'

Red1Guest blinks.

Kaige says, 'and we knew we wanted a familiar diku style interface, but wanted to have a much better presentation as well.'

Kaige says, 'the next addition was decidding what all things like stats, eq slots, affects we wanted/needed'

Kaige is grossly oversimplifying, but you get the idea.

Rusalka hopes Kaige is logging this

LadyAce says to Rusalka, 'they're all logged :)'

Rusalka giggles.

Kaige says, 'and the biggest one was the acts system. which he did from scratch and we're still adding to it.'

Kaige nods her agreement with Rusalka.

Kaige pats someone on the head.

Kaige says, 'I've got my secretary with me'

Rusalka giggles.

Kaige says to Red1Guest, 'dunno if that answers your question exactly.. but..'

Kaige giggles.

LadyAce says, 'I think it would've been nice to add in the varstrings stuff earlier'

Kaige says, 'I do know he did a lot of rewriting in the "nanny" and "comm" functions.'

LadyAce says, 'a lot of things got done in really funny ways because acts didn't know much about numbers or making computations'

Kaige says, 'yah variable support earlier would have been way nicer'

Red1Guest says, 'Acts, varstrings, nanny, and comm. Define?'

LadyAce says, 'and for storing strings, etc.'

LadyAce says, 'acts are what you're calling mobprogs I think'

Kaige says, 'acts = mob/roomprogs'

Red1Guest says, 'Except yours can do... everything.'

Kaige says, 'varstring = variable string basically just a list of string variable.'

Red1Guest reads the helpfile in awe. =)

Kaige says, 'well anything we find we can't do, we add the functionality in'

Kaige says, 'or try to'

Red1Guest says, 'Varstring- A variable string, that's a list of string variables?'

LadyAce says, 'and all the math functions too'

Kaige says, 'nanny functions are your basic char generation and connection state handling ones'

Kaige nods her agreement with Red1Guest.

LadyAce says, 'ability to store stuff on the fly, give mobs 'memory' of events in their lifetime, etc'

Kaige says, 'and comm function are all the input/tcpip handling that's not parser related'

Blue1Guest says, 'why'd you change that?'

Kaige says, 'a lot of it was buggy in merc 2.02beta'

Red1Guest says, 'Not parser related?'

Kaige says, 'not as far as handling commands themselves, but all the networking stuff'

Kaige says, 'oh! I know one of the biggest banes from the original code...'

LadyAce says, 'if we had it to do over, notes & boards would not be the same! :)'

Kaige says, 'boards.. we knew we didn't want the standard mess... ugly.. but what we've ended up with is ugly in a different way'

Kaige sighs.

Kaige says, 'but that's part of letting inexperienced coders muck around with it too.'

LadyAce says, 'Regex support is spiffy, but probably not necessary really early.'

LadyAce says, 'these days we're trying to move to more reload-on-the-fly stuff, particularly with areas.'

LadyAce says, 'would be SO nice to fix dumb bugs in mobs without a reboot.'

Red1Guest says, 'LadyAce, Reload on the fly as in, PC shows up, zonerepops?'

Kaige shakes her head.

LadyAce says, 'nah, as in I change a line in an area file, and reload it into the running mud'

LadyAce says, 'mob is responding to 'teach' but not 'learn' -- *boom* fixed'

Kaige says, 'as in you change the database, do a "hot restart" don't reboot in traditional sense, but do it "on the fly"'

LadyAce says, 'nothing like instant gratification.'

Red1Guest says, 'Mobcode compiler seperate from main MUD.'

Kaige says, 'don't have to kick players off one a week to do area updates'

Kaige says, 'our acts system isn't compiled but interpreted.'

Kaige says, 'kinda in the middle between what we do now and olc'

Red1Guest says, 'How do you update the area database without reloading?'

Blue1Guest presumes that there would be limits to what you could reload.

Red1Guest says, 'Ech, very technical...'

Kaige says, 'we don't currently.'

Kaige nods her agreement with Blue1Guest.

LadyAce says, 'we wish we could :)'

Kaine sits in a Sopwith Pup.

LadyAce says, 'we can reload a few things that way, but not many'

Red1Guest says, 'OLC.'

Kaige says, 'there's always going to be some things that require code changes along with database changes tho'

Kaige says, 'online creation like oasis'

Red1Guest says, 'MM. I've used that too.'

Blue1Guest says, 'and it'd be messy to delete a room someone was in :)'

Red1Guest says, 'I'll have to figure it out...'

Kaige nods her agreement with Blue1Guest.

Red1Guest says, 'Now for storage, you have the .are files that define an area.'

Red1Guest says, 'For player storage, you have pfiles, and then there's other various files for things.'

LadyAce says, 'let me cut in a minute here and say that I'm heading out -- unless there are questions for player relations, rather than the imp :)'

Kaige nods solemnly.

Red1Guest says, 'Thanks LadyAce!'

LadyAce says, 'text, text, text, text :)'

Kaine waves good-bye to LadyAce.

Kaige says, 'yeah.. all flat text files currently'

Red1Guest says, 'You've been a great help.'

Kaige says to LadyAce, 'have fun'

LadyAce waves happily.

Kaige waves happily.

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