October 25th, 2001

Gagchannel Bug Fixed?

LadyAce says, 'so, who has a question?'

Masha says to LadyAce, 'I just wanted to know if the bug has been fixed with gagchannel.'

Ea! says, 'which bug in particular?'

Masha says to Ea!, 'The being able to repeat it several times.'

Ea! says, 'Not yet. We're working on it.'

Masha nods her agreement with Ea!.

Deathtraps & Bad Recalls?

Herbert says, 'ok this is just a small idea'

Herbert says, 'with DT's would it be possible to set them to recall to an inn'

Herbert says, 'rather than any normal recall point?'

Herbert says, 'that was the most painful experience and bad timing of my life to get recalled to the slave hut'

LadyAce says, 'it's do'able with act code'

Herbert says, 'is it set that way on some and just not others?'

LadyAce says, 'you can put it in as an idea for Sandra & Kaige to consider whether they want to recommend it that way'

Herbert nods solemnly.

LadyAce says, 'it's not set that way on any, as far as I know.'

Oxdeadbeef says, 'and doable from a coding standpoint regardless :)'

McDougan says, 'I wash once recaulled to the tiny ishland in the middle o' the shouth sheash'

Herbert says, 'thats what i needed to know now i can idea it :) and get horridly rebuffed hehehed'

LadyAce says, 'it sets you back to your last recall point'

McDougan says, 'wi'oot a boat, o' courshe'

Herbert nods his agreement with McDougan.

LadyAce says, 'sometimes that's the nearest inn, if you're lucky'

Dejiko says, 'Yeah it's a pain in the butt to get recalled to an island in the dark, esspecially in the middle of the night without many people on'

LadyAce smiles at Herbert.

Jade nods her agreement with Dejiko.

Kaige says, 'yeah, mentioning things like that in the bug/idea channels is helpful, cause we may not always realize we've done something dumb like that'

Kaige says, 'when it happens to you, OR when it happens to someone else and you see them talk about it on channels'

Areas In Progress?

McDougan says, 'I jusht wanted to knw whether the London of Leila will ever appear?'

LadyAce says, 'I know that she's still working on it, testing and fixing and such'

McDougan says, 'any eshtimated date?'

LadyAce says, 'I don't know of one, no.'

Kaige says, 'no estimated date, but I've been tlaking with her about it. She's been swamped with work and travelling for work lately,'

Kaige says, 'but she's hoping to get some time this week to chain herself to her desk.'

Kaige says, 'I just sat down and did an ascii map of the whole thing for her from what she had in the file, so she was excited about that and said it gave her a lot more perspective and incentive to work on it.'

McDougan beams at Kaige delightedly.

Mitsukake says, 'I got a followup! Same question, insert matrixs area instead :P'

LadyAce says to Mitsukake, 'I haven't seen anything about it in a while.'

Mitsukake sulks in the corner.

McDougan says, 'How aboot charity?'

LadyAce says, 'Charity's on almost daily...'

McDougan says, 'aye, but she hash three areash I have nae heard about in a while'

McDougan says, 'and I want them!'

McDougan says, 'I like her areash, but ave nae HEARD anything of late'

LadyAce says, 'You should send her a note and say so yourself.'

McDougan says, 'true!'

McDougan says, 'I weel!'

LadyAce says, 'she's a better source of info on herself than I'

Channel for AA's?

Jade says, 'I'd just like to hear imm comments on the AA channel I idea'd.'

Kaige says, 'the one about A channels for anyone AA at the time, right?'

Mitsukake says to Jade, 'stealing my idea, jerk'

Jade nods her agreement with Kaige.

Jade says to Mitsukake, 'changing your idea to a better idea.'

Masha says to Jade, 'i think that'd be cool'

Kaige says, 'I do sorts on mondays, so that one hasn't come through to Ea! yet, unless he saw it in the logs.'

Kaige says, 'Personally, I don't have a problem with it, if it's feasible, code wise.'

LadyAce says, 'yeah, unless we're online when you idea it, we see it the monday after you send it in'

Ea! says, 'I saw it. Struck me as something that I should see what the other imms thought about.'

Kaige says, 'i like that better than the idea of a generic, open to everyone, pk channel.'

Jade says, 'just wondering what the general concensus is about it..'

Kaige nods her agreement with Ea!.

Kaige says, 'no concensus at all yet. most haven't heard the idea'

Jade nods solemnly.

Ea! says, 'Code wise, I think it it's worth supporting AA channels regardless of whether the Imm staff thinks a perm. channel is a good idea. There's lots of time I could see demand for one.'

Jade nods her agreement with Ea!.

Jade says to Ea!, 'also gives somewhat of a bonus for being AA.'

Masha nods her agreement with Jade.

Jade says, 'thus promoting AA ;)'

Kaige says, 'I like it how it's not just one anyone could tune into'

Jade says to Kaige, 'exactly'

Commands for Big Groups?

LadyAce says, 'Ok, Krynn's question is looking for input on his idea that we store the hitters and tanks for a group in a place where you can retrieve it instead of having to ask'

LadyAce says, 'i.e., you're in a group, type tank'

LadyAce says, 'then it tell you who the tank is'

McDougan says to LadyAce, 'whit? sae ye can have even lesh communication in a group?'

LadyAce says, 'is the idea he wanted input on before he went oow'

Ea! looks up into the sky and ponders.

Iashaylla is completely boggled.

Kaige says, 'if we had formations, I could see it. but'

LadyAce says, 'I think we're not really optimized for mass-group combat'

Iashaylla says, 'as much as tanks change in groups, how could you work that?'

Jade says to McDougan, 'and to let the normal community not have to listen to AA's argue, etc.'

Kaige nods her agreement with Iashaylla.

LadyAce says, 'the leader could set it'

Dejiko nods solemnly.

Iashaylla says, 'but what about mob turns? that changes tank'

McDougan says to Jade, 'I mean tank.'

Masha says, 'or just set an optional flag for anyone who reaches about 600hps'

LadyAce says, '"tank" meaning the person in the group designated that title'

Jade nods her agreement with Masha.

Mitsukake says, 'that changes whos being hit, not tank :P'

LadyAce says, 'not the vict of the mob, the mob could hit 3 people at once if it were smart'

Masha says, 'anyone can tank with more than 600 hps, hell, I have'

Ea! says, 'Well, or does he mean something that shows who in the group is being attacked and who is attacking?'

McDougan says, 'I tink that if ye cannae juht ashk the group, theresh a major communication prooblem'

Izikiel nods his agreement with McDougan.

Jade says to Mitsukake, 'the tank is the person being hit. :p'

Jade says to McDougan, 'ahh, see your point.'

LadyAce says, 'I think asking is probably not a problem from our perspective, and until it is ... :)'

Dejiko says, 'If something like that was implemented it would be cool to have code to go along with it for healers to operate tank, ect'

Iashaylla nods her agreement with Dejiko.

Kaige says, 'which would mean you wouldn't have to pay attention?'

Kaige wrinkles her nose with distaste.

Iashaylla says, 'a code for the healer to operate on whichever group member is being hit currently'

Krynn says, 'back for a sec, it's simple, the group lead goes "hitters " if people want to know who's supposed to be hitting they got type "hitter" and it shows the names'

McDougan says, 'it makesh groopsh tae automatic?'

Krynn says, 'it shows who is SUPPOSED to be doing what, making organization easier with less spam'

Mitsukake says, 'asking can be a problem on a quimby run, he tends to flip out and recall over everything :P'

Isam says, 'with a decent leader, that isn't neccessary really.'

Iashaylla says to Kaige, 'in the larger areas, it is harder to see switches and who is being hit some of the time, '

Jade grins evilly at Mitsukake.. wonder what she's thinking...

LadyAce says, 'I think you'll have to solve your social problems yourselves :)'

Izikiel says, 'Well I always thought that was part of the gameplay'

Oxdeadbeef says, 'now the more general idea, the ability to set a "group motd" is kinda interesting.'

McDougan says to Mitsukake, 'sae ashk shoomun elsh!'

Izikiel says, 'This isn't an automated quake session you're gaming through'

McDougan says, 'I dunnae like onyting that makesh people hev tae talk lesh'

Isam nods his agreement with Izikiel.

Chunk says, 'a good tank/leader can organize a run.. a good tank has trigs to every situation so that he/she is always tanking'

Chunk shrugs helplessly.

Emrysia wrinkles her nose with distaste.

Masha nods her agreement with Chunk.

McDougan says, 'and ye are nae going tae have a groop lasht for sheveral daysh'

LadyAce says, 'I don't mind the general idea of helping make organization easier, but automating interactions that should be social is not so good for this kind of mud'

Izikiel nods his agreement with McDougan.

Mitsukake says, 'a good tank doesnt use trigs :P losers do!'

Krynn says, 'i think y'all are taking a simple idea way out of proportion, it's 2 commands that each hold a variable =P not automated tanking & healing'

McDougan says, 'II thocht triggersh were nae allowed?'

Hrath tends to believe a good tank is someone who can do without triggers, with general alertness and all.

Iashaylla nods her agreement with Krynn.

Masha giggles at Hrath.

LadyAce says to McDougan, 'triggers are legal...'

Izikiel says, 'hrath'

McDougan says to Krynn, 'aye, but it meansh ye can join a groop, and play it, wi'oot talking'

Masha says, 'I have triggers, I don't see how that's a big deal then.'

Dejiko says, 'What would be better imho is in the group part where it is Char_A's group: (You could put a message here, assining hitters, whatever)'

Iashaylla says to Hrath, 'those are fewer and farther between now a days'

Chunk says to Hrath, 'ayup but trigs also help a lot too incase it is a big group =p'

Hrath nods his agreement with Iashaylla.

Jade says, 'I see krynn's point, you guys are blowing it out of proportion.'

Hrath says to Chunk, 'I never disagreed with that, though I tend to trust automated people less than people who actually watch'

McDougan says, 'we'll prooly end up wi' "shilent runsh" wheer ye are nae allowit tae talk'

McDougan shudders.

Krynn says to Jade, 'way out of proportion'

Masha says to McDougan, 'Don't laugh, I've been on a few'

Jade nods her agreement with Krynn.

McDougan says to Krynn, 'ye ashkit our opinionn'

McDougan says to Masha, 'shcary!'

Ea! says, 'I'm not sure what's so hard with the leader just putting a ' before the "hitter foo bar baz biz"'

Iashaylla says to Hrath, 'I have never automated on a run, but at times with 5 hitters, and if you have more then 2 mobs hitting, and then wanderers come in, you just can NOT keep track of who is being hit'

LadyAce says to Iashaylla, 'I find that the disorder is part of the fun :)'

McDougan says to Iashaylla, 'aye, but thatsh different than thish idea'

Hrath says to Iashaylla, 'and thats the -fun- of it!'

Iashaylla says to LadyAce, 'when you're a solo healer on a major run, that disorder adds up to a headache after the adrenaline rush wears off'

Jade nods her agreement with Iashaylla.

McDougan says to Iashaylla, 'get anoother healer!'

Single Quote for Say?

Isam says, 'i was just wondering if it would be possible to make 'single qoute' do a say, i hate typing say constantly.'

LadyAce says, 'doesn't it?'

LadyAce says, 'works ok for me'

McDougan says, 'it doesh'

Jade says, 'it does ;)'

McDougan says, 'Ye hev tae put a gap efter it?'

Isam says, 'it doesnt world for me!?'

Isam peers at himself myopically.

LadyAce says, 'maybe you have it mapped oddly in your client'

Jade says to Isam, 'check your special char settings.'

Isam says, 'must be zmud'

Masha nods her agreement with Isam.

Isam is completely boggled.

Masha says to Isam, 'Need gmud'

Isam says, 'sorry'

Jade says to Isam, 'and you could always alias any key to say.'

Ea! says, 'you can use a dash, too.'

Isam says, 'but qoute works for me in another mud, i get many problems when i try to say here :)'

Jade says to Isam, 'use the dash, or alias ' = say?'

Isam says to Jade, 'if i alias, i have to put a space after it'

Jade says, 'you have to the way the mud works anyhoo.'

Isam says, 'all well, this will work'

Isam waves happily.

Upcoming Code Projects?

Dejiko says, 'Are you still planning on playing with create healing, or is it going to stay as is for a while?'

Mitsukake says, 'code updates this week?'

LadyAce says, 'no big projects that we're announcing or anything'

LadyAce says to Dejiko, 'we're still looking at the impact of the change'

Dejiko nods solemnly.

Unimped Spells?

Iashaylla says, 'I've seen spells that are still being listed as "not implemented yet" they've been like that for years, are they ever going to come in?'

LadyAce says, 'those are more like placeholders'

Iashaylla says to LadyAce, 'place holders?'

LadyAce says, 'we don't have immediate plans to do any of them, but there's a spot in the table reserved for them'

Ea! says, 'Most of those are just there until I find a good way to pull them out. Some we still plan on implementing'

LadyAce says, 'many of them we'll likely never do'

Iashaylla nods solemnly.

McDougan says to Ea!, 'name one ye plan to do'

Iashaylla says, 'then the spell sides are imbalanced'

Ea! says, 'shadowroom'

McDougan says, 'och! noo shpell for me!'

McDougan says, 'will ye ever add a new word?'

McDougan says, 'that ye forsee?'

Iashaylla says to McDougan, 'lord I hope not'

McDougan says, 'foresee'

Mitsukake nods his agreement with Iashaylla.

McDougan says, 'they get noo shkillsh all the time, why nae noo shpellsh!'

Mitsukake says, 'already level 27 before I can get any other skills'

Iashaylla says to McDougan, 'not when you have to get words before skills for cast levels'

Mitsukake says, 'that is enough damnit'

McDougan says, 'troo.+'

Ea! says, 'no current plans to add spell words.'

LadyAce says, 'we're way short on skills'

Oxdeadbeef says, 'you're way long on practices, if you ask me what the problem is :)'

McDougan says, 'weel..how about magical shkillsh, with word prerequisitesh?'

LadyAce giggles at Oxdeadbeef.

Wall Spells?

Jade thinks walls should get revamped. :p

Mitsukake says, 'you always think that jade'

Jade says to Mitsukake, 'well, they should.'

Iashaylla says to Jade, 'what's wrong with them?'

Jade says to Mitsukake, 'specially now that creates have no midfight healing.'

Mitsukake says, 'hey, if i could climb over stone walls, cravens stupid create mages couldnt harrass my pkillers'

Mitsukake says, 'all the Bleepin time :P'

Iashaylla giggles at Mitsukake.

Jade says to Iashaylla, 'one 2c spell ruins them.'

Iashaylla nods her agreement with Jade.

Jade says, 'all of them.'

Dejiko says, 'Pure fighters ain't got that one 2c spell :)'

Iashaylla says, 'if it takes 3C to make 'em, it SHOULD take 3C to destroy 'em'

Jade says to Dejiko, 'but 90% of the pk community does.'

Mitsukake says, '90% are con snipers atm'

Dejiko says, 'Snipers don't heh :)'

Iashaylla nods her agreement with Mitsukake.

Izikiel nods his agreement with Iashaylla.

Jade says to Iashaylla, 'not really, use things like climb, fly, resist fire against them.'

Dejiko says, 'Soon 90% will be augmentors :)'

Izikiel smiles happily.

Jade says, 'one could fly over or climb a stone wall, for example.'

Iashaylla says to Jade, 'but it makes sense, you can climb or fly over a wall'

Izikiel says, 'Hmm 1000% increase in create mages ?'

Jade says, 'but anyway, this isn't suggestions and answers. :p'

Iashaylla says to Jade, 'except a wall of fire'

Iashaylla giggles.

Jade says to Iashaylla, 'protection from fire ;)'

Jade says to Iashaylla, 'and you can walk through that wall, regardless.'

Jade says to Iashaylla, 'only 15 damage..'

Iashaylla nods her agreement with Jade.

Jade says, 'which could be toned down.'

Jade says to McDougan, 'ganking detect illusion from making an 80 mana wall useless, replacing fire walls with protection from fire as a way around it. etc..'

Deathtraps That Defy Logic?

McDougan says, 'Why do falling-type deathtrapsh hit ye if yer flying?'

LadyAce says, 'just cuz they don't have messages to deal with the case'

LadyAce says, 'you should idea the ones that seem illogical'

McDougan says, 'I wuid think that ye should, for inshtanshe, be able to fly over the top of the waterfal in eire, and off intae a shpeshial shmall area'

McDougan says, 'alsho, protection againsht fire for burning?'

Kaige nods her agreement with McDougan.

LadyAce says, 'it's more likely that we'll add messages to explain the incongruity :)'

McDougan says to LadyAce, 'name how'

Mitsukake says, 'hah, have the Dt check to see flying, and if you are, make a sniper pop out and whip a bubbly at you'

Mitsukake ducks to the ground.

McDougan says, 'for a waterfall?'

Mitsukake slaps Dejiko.

Hrath says, 'water forces you down?'

Hrath shrugs helplessly.

McDougan says, 'What about protection from fire? t would give it an extra ushe?'

McDougan says to Hrath, 'ye aren't in the water.'

LadyAce says to McDougan, '"Winds from the chasm below you whip around your body, forming a whirlwind! You are sucked down into the void, and smashed against the rocks, your pitiful flapping leaving only a few feathers to show your vain efforts to posterity'

McDougan says, 'if yer flying, yer over the water'

Kaige says, 'no, but it causes a massive down draft I bet'

Kaige says, 'specially it's it's a big falls'

Hrath nods his agreement with Kaige.

Kaige says, 'if it's a big one that is.'

McDougan says to LadyAce, 'it's nae a chasm, it's a cliff'

LadyAce says to McDougan, 'I'm just naming a way of thinking about it :)'

McDougan nods his agreement with LadyAce.

LadyAce says, 'in other words, we'd cheat :)'

McDougan says, 'But it would be nishe ta ehev shpeshial areash behind deathtrapsh'

LadyAce says, 'what else is new?'

Mortisha says, 'of course thats what imms do best'

Jade gasps at LadyAce.

McDougan says, 'if ye can sholve the way tae get pasht'

LadyAce licks Jade.

Kaige says, 'it'd be nice to have all the time and vnums in the world too'

Jade says, 'sandra is pretty good at it :p'

McDougan says, 'imagine aul the people trying tae find how tae get there!'

Mortisha sticks her tongue out at LadyAce. =P

Why Delays On All Skills?

Jade says, 'why, exactly, do things like mend have skill lag?'

Jade says, 'rather, so much skill lag.'

Ea! says, 'cause it takes a while to mend things.'

LadyAce says, 'so, realism'

McDougan says, 'have ye e'er darned a sock?'

Jade nods solemnly.

Ea! says, 'Or some approximation thereof. If we made it take as long as it should to mend things, it'd be unplayable.'

Jade says, 'fair enough, I guess, but annoying.'

McDougan says to Ea!, 'nae nesharily. one tick ish a half-hour'

Jade says to McDougan, 'true ;)'

Ea! says to McDougan, 'Can you imaging 40 tick skill lag while you forge a sword?'

McDougan grins evilly at Ea!.. wonder what he's thinking...

Jade says to Ea!, 'I'd welcome it if the sword was worth using. :p'

McDougan says to Ea!, 'there ushed tae be, but ye maade the quesht take lesh time'

More on Gagchannel

Craven says to Hrath, 'btw, that code where you get a message when people gagchannel you is awesome'

Craven says to Hrath, 'I love that message, but it needs to have a blank space after it'

Gaelus says to Craven, 'that bit of code pissed me off'

Craven says to Hrath, 'plus its abuseable'

Iashaylla nods her agreement with Craven.

Craven says to Hrath, 'if you type gagchannel #*craven, I get like 100 messages'

Ea! says, 'Yeah, well, we log it's use, so we can warn people who use it to abuse people.'

Gaelus says to Craven, 'they're fixing it'

Craven says to Hrath, 'just some helpful hints on your funny code, whee!'

Hrath says, 'we know that'

LadyAce giggles at Craven.

Hrath says, 'it was not something I added, more like something I didn't add'

Iashaylla says to Craven, 'they're workin on it'

Craven says, 'I know you didn't do it on purpose :P'

Kaige says to Craven, '30 is the max on repetitions.'

Izikiel says, 'He who has time bugfixes, he who doesn't tries to get time'

Craven says, 'yea well I didn't count them all'

Craven says, 'I just know if you type a big number it does it a lot of times'

Kaige just knows the cut off limit is 30.

Hrath says to Craven, 'thing is, we might contrary to your belief, not have all the time in the world, seeing as I've had alot of real life stuff to attend to, I havn't had the time'

Craven says, 'fine :P'

Craven says, 'just doesn't seem like a big fix to me, cut and paste or something'

Craven says, 'maybe its huge and 1200 lines, what do I know'

Different Imms - Different Answers?

Jade says, 'this may come across wrong, bare with me.'

LadyAce nods her agreement with Jade.

Jade says, 'no rudeness intended.'

Jade says, 'why does one admin imm tell me something is quote highly illegal" and every other imm on the mud tell me there's nothing wrong with it?'

LadyAce says, 'because we're not BORG'

Jade says, 'it was pretty cut and dry.'

Jade says, 'without going into detail.'

McDougan says to LadyAce, 'ye cannae arrange for that?'

Kir says, 'but WHY aren't you BORG?'

Iashaylla snickers at Kir nastily.

Kaige says, 'well without going into the same deatil with each admin, you're really begging for different asnwers too'

Hrath <--- ceff03 of break.

LadyAce says, 'well, maybe they saw something the others didn't, or they hadn't remembered some change, or whatever.'

Jade says to Kaige, 'asked each imm personally, the exact same question.'

Iashaylla says to Kaige, 'what about when you DO go into the exact same detail with different IMM's and get different answers every time?'

LadyAce says, 'well, maybe you should point the discrepancy out to the head admin and let them deal with the issue?'

LadyAce says, 'some stuff is really a judgement call'

LadyAce says, 'and everyone has different judgements'

Kaige says, 'then you need to bring that up to Zandy or me so we can start a discussion with the others about why that's happening'

Jade says to LadyAce, 'that may be the difference in a warning and no warning, tho.'

LadyAce says, 'that's part of why we have the appeal system'

Jade says, 'forget it, you can't really give me a clear answer why the the rules say one thing to one person, and another thing to another person, I guess the rules really aren't that clear.'

Jade says, 'which is the entire problem.'

LadyAce says, 'we try to make them as clear as we can. You're being very vague, and it's impossible to answer you in these circumstances.'

Balm, Create, and PK

Craven says, 'how are talks going about changing 2nd circle create to help those who were drasticly affected, negativly, by balm'

Craven says, 'balm sucks in pk, especially if you have 50 mind'

Ea! says, 'We're waiting a while for people to adjust their tactics to the new code. We do this every time we make a change.'

Craven says, 'tactics?'

Craven says, 'poison or bleeding makes balm 0% effective'

Craven says, 'and in pk your almost one of the above'

Mortisha nods her agreement with Craven.

Jade says to Craven, 'oh no, craven might lose a fight!'

Hrath's thought on that is still, don't base something off the asumption that you will heal as a 3c mage if it seems weird that you can, it is prone to be changed.

Jade snickers softly.

Craven says, 'jade...'

Craven says, 'seriously'

Craven says, 'I honestly don't think I could kill 1 in 10 right now'

Kaige says, 'and cure poison and bandages cure those.'

Craven reports: 425/425 hp 377/473 mana 379/379 mv.

Jade says to Craven, 'welcome to my nightmare.'

Craven says, 'you basicly just culled more char types out of the system'

Craven says, 'it keeps getting smaller and smaller'

Mortisha says, 'try bandaging when you are wasting your damn practices on spell words'

Craven says, 'which makes it easier to balance'

Craven says, 'but lacks in diversity'

Ea! says, 'Here's the thing: at one point, we made a change that made shoot more powerful if you didn't have a weapon. We thought it was a good idea balance wise. It didn't help, so we upped it. Then, someone realized that if they used draw, they''

Mortisha says, 'then have to run from one end of the mud to the other to find the one or 2 mobs that bandage'

Kaige says, 'well since we dont' have a bandaid spell, all my mages have always learned badage'

Ea! says, 'they'd kick ass. Suddenly, we needed to undo everything we had done.'

Craven says, 'I guarentee barring really good luck that sammael or any of my characters could beat a 2nd circle create right now'

Craven says, 'if we can't have a chance, can we be offered the chance to go cause or something?'

LadyAce says, 'we have to figure out all the ways this can be abused before we make more changes :)'

Ea! says, 'Since then, when we make fairly major changes, we like to give them a few weeks so that we can see what tactics people come up with, and how effective they are.'

Craven says, 'I'd rather have cure light then balm'

Craven says, 'balm is useless in pk unless your willing to time trans and meditate for 10 minutes while it heals you'

Craven says, 'and that is way to cheap of a tactic for most people to use'

Mortisha says, 'so be a cause mage if you want cure light'

Craven says, 'I WILL be cause mage, but I sure as hell don't want to perma'

Craven says, 'I shouldn't have to'

Ea! says, 'if you build your character in such a way that it relies on one or two spells or skills to be effective, then you take the risk of being useless if those change.'

Craven says, 'ea'

Craven says, 'honestly'

Craven says, 'go make a second circle create'

Craven says, 'tell me what they "get" that assists them in pk'

Craven says, 'dopples?'

Craven says, 'maybe sink and detect illusion'

Craven says, 'thats it'

Mortisha says, 'tell me what they get that assists them at all'

Jade says to Craven, 'augment. :p'

Craven says, 'cause gets most of those AND buff spells AND healing'

Craven says, 'I wish to god I'd came from tara'

Ea! says to Craven, 'Headbutt. Kick. Bash. Augment. They can have any of these.'

Craven says, 'then I could be insane with augment, but unfortunately I didn't'

Craven says, 'EA!'

Craven says, 'those aren't create things'

Hrath says, 'and before you had, what you just said and one spell that changed.. not much of a change'

Craven says, 'if I was cause I'd get those'

Craven says, 'I can't believe your telling me 2nd circle create is viable in pk...'

Craven says, 'you basicly waste points on mind and spirit so you can sink'

Craven says, 'woo hoo!'

Craven says, 'as it stands I could end fights with 90 mana easy'

Kaige says, 'depends what you put with the other half of it and how you use it, I'd think.'

Craven says, '90% mana'

Ea! says to Craven, 'I'm not commenting on that. I'm just saying that you shouldn't be making your character so that a change to one spell suddently renders you ineffective.'

Craven says, 'there is NOTHING to use mana on as a 2nd circle create'

Jade says to Craven, 'listen, legend makes balance changes by taking things away, not putting new ones in. :p'

Craven says, 'fine'

Craven says, 'I'm really flabbergasted....'

Craven says, 'as a personal challenge, I challenge ANY of you to fight me with a 2nd circle crate without augment'

Craven says, 'I will beat you every time'

Ea! says to Jade, 'It's "balance" -- what takes away from one adds to another. What adds to one, removes from another.'

Hrath says, 'you've done that several times'

Hrath shrugs helplessly.

Jade says to Craven, '2c create and druidism kinda just go hand in hand now.'

Craven says, 'unless you manage to quad wfw me'

Craven says, 'my point is this'

Jade nods her agreement with Ea!.

Craven says, 'balm isn't horrible for 3rd circle mages'

Jade says to Ea!, 'exactly.'

Craven says, 'they can at least make tanks so they don't NEED to heal'

LadyAce says, 'I think that we're not arguing the same argument. There's a problem, we're not ready to fix it.'

Craven says, 'whats the point of being a mage if I get 2 spells?'

Hrath says to Craven, 'and how is cure light vs cure critical?'

Ea! nods his agreement with LadyAce.

Craven says, 'not as good, but its COMPAREABLE'

Mortisha says, '4-8 hp versus 60 with 100 mind'

Craven says, 'cure light costs slightly more mana and a lot more time'

Craven says, 'there IS no comparaison to balm'

LadyAce says, 'we are not disagreeing with you about the problem, although we're quibbling about the severity.'

Craven says, 'actually tahts wrong mortisha'

Craven says, '100 mind cure lights are like 11-12'

Craven says, 'like I said'

Craven says, 'test it on me'

Mortisha says, 'you can cure crit with as little as 20 mana and get very little results'

LadyAce says, 'but we're not ready to go fix it yet.'

Mortisha says, 'no its not'

Craven says, 'fight me with any character of your choosing and barring insane luck, the 2nd circle create will lose EVERY time'

Hrath says, 'and have you even tested 100 mind 2c create yet?'

LadyAce says, 'let's move on :) who else has a question?'

Craven says, 'I have to be 100 mind to be effective now?'

Craven says, 'then I can have 700 mana and use 50 of it?'

Jade says to Ea!, 'whats the actual time rate of a fight round? like in mud minutes'

Mortisha says, 'ive been playing cause mages for the better part of 5 years now i should know how i heal'

Craven says, '100 mind heals 11-12 on a cure light, go test it'

Hrath says, 'no, but you said 100 mind cause, I gotta say then it should be the same for create'

Hrath shrugs helplessly.

Craven says, '50 mind cause has benefits'

Craven says, '50 mind create doesn't unless you have augment to go with it'

Mortisha says, 'and i never said anything about cure light sure with 100 mind you might get some 12 hp'ers'

Craven says, 'as for me being built to rely on something, thats not true at all'

Mortisha says, 'it is the same if you balm and wait 400 years for your hp to go up'

Craven says, 'I'm from klien, the 2nd most worthless hometown'

Craven says, 'I was built in a system with spam for spam'

Jade says to Craven, 'fine, fight me without backstab.'

Craven says, 'I adapted to this system'

Craven says, 'theres nothing to adapt to here'

Craven says, 'my only real option to become viable again is to become a dex/perc/con sniper like everyone else'

Craven says, 'again, cutting diversity'

Jade says to Craven, 'get over it and make a new char that you enjoy playing then.'

Craven rolls his eyes heavenward.

Craven says, 'your missing the point...'

Izikiel smiles happily.

Craven says, 'I shouldn't HAVE to make a new character, jesus...'

Craven says, 'and I have characters I enjoy'

Mortisha says, 'unlike roots i could if i was lucky make one root to heal all my hp at once at low levels'

Craven says, 'but all characters should be viable'

Craven says, 'or most anyway'

Izikiel says to Craven, 'XFUT Discussionboard ?'

Jade says to Craven, 'you don't HAVE to, but you want the BEST, and craven isnt anymore, deal with it.'

Craven says, 'if you have a fight stat you should be viable :P'

Craven says, 'I don't want the best'

Craven says, 'jade, come ic and fight me right now'

Ea! says to Craven, 'I seem to recall you arguing that you'd never be able to adapt when we got rid of spam gear, too.'

Craven says, 'actually I didn't'

Jade says to Craven, 'when this is over, sure'

Craven says, 'after spam gear I was trying to decide which to go'

Craven says, 'I was for the removable of spam gear'

Craven says, 'even though, as I said, it cut diversity'

Jade says to Craven, 'but you'll just tumble every headbutt I throw at ya.'

Kaige hasn't seen any other hands raised... so..

Craven says, 'we're slowly making everyone a cookie cutter charater'

Izikiel nods his agreement with Kaige.

Craven says, 'which is easier to balance but removes some fun from the mud'

Mortisha says, 'its bad enough i make a newbie i put one stat higher then the others, and i end up with the lower fightstats weapon'

Craven says to Ea!, 'look, if you don't believe me, then test it on me'

Ea! says, 'well, in this case, we're just giving it a little time before we balance it so that we know how much to balance it.'

McDougan says, 'whoo ya caulin cookie cutter?'

McDougan pokes Craven in the ribs.

Craven says to Ea!, 'make a guy or change the name of someone or anything and fight me'

McDougan says, 'I'll show ye!!!'

Craven says to Ea!, 'or if you think I'm too good or too bad, test it on someone else'

Kaige says, 'I dunno I'd expect the average stats to be skewed more if we were making everyone the same typ echar, bue when they're all around 50, sseems pretty spread out to me'

McDougan pounces on Craven, bowling him over.

Hrath says to Craven, 'adapt by getting more mind perhaps?'

LadyAce says to Ea!, 'he's not arguing with you. why do you think he needs convincing when he's convinced?'

Craven says to Ea!, 'but I guarentee the results will come out like I said'

LadyAce says to Craven, 'er, that was to you'

LadyAce says to Craven, 'He knows there's a problem. he agrees with you. Chill!'

Craven says, 'we're all at 50 cuz you gain nothing by going 70'

Craven says, 'we're all 90+ fightstat cuz we gain something'

McDougan says, 'Why dunnae ye joosht proposhe new create shpellsh or shkillsh??'

Craven says, 'there has to be an incentive for people to use it'

Kaige says, 'no that's average from level 1 to 50 everyone.'

Ea! says to Craven, 'They probably will. I just want to be sure, since we're so low on time to code.'

Craven says, 'theres a reason that a ton of augmenters have 60 spirit'

Kaige says, 'and even if you give it to people they whine it sucks because they don't have the 70 or higher.'

Craven says, 'I never expected to be a "good" mage'

Craven says, 'I can't solo mobs for shit for example'

Craven says, 'this is by far my worst mob killer'

Craven says, 'always has been, always will be'

McDougan says, 'pairhapsh say I hev an idea! whit if ye hed a shkill that allooit ye tae create shomething and inshtantly shend it flying towardsh the pershon?'

McDougan says, 'wi' better targetting?'

Craven says, 'but I don't really care about his mobkilling abilities. I built him to be a pkiller'

McDougan says, 'jusht an example'

Craven says, 'but as it stands I couldn't take a mob OR a player'

Kaige says to McDougan, 'like frostbolt?'

Kaige says to McDougan, 'that sucked too if I recall correctly.'

McDougan says to Kaige, 'I mean more like vile green goo'

Jade giggles at Kaige.

Craven says, 'I like the idea of frostbolt, but upping the spelllevels on things are too hard'

Kaige says, 'well frost bolt and ice dagger'

Craven says, 'you have to do a quest 25 times'

Craven says, 'and as I recall it was not an easy quest'

Craven says, 'easier to just use lightning'

McDougan says to Kaige, 'becaushe people alwaysh claim that they cannae hit with throw, sae make a magical alternative that combinesh chant and throw, magcally toshing it'

Jade says, 'lightning is better anyway, IMO'

Ea! says to McDougan, 'Well, we already want to fix throw.'

McDougan nods solemnly.

Craven says, 'I don't know'

Kaige says to McDougan, 'that'd be most of the targetting magical spells anyway'

Ea! says, 'so we'll probably just do that.'

Craven says, 'semirhage was 48 when frost bolt went in'

Craven says, 'so I have no characters that can cast it worth a damn'

Craven says, 'I thought spellbooks gave you more then 1 level per read'

Craven says, 'or could be read like 3 or 4 times per book'

Jade says to Craven, 'cast level shouldn't effect damage.'

Craven says, 'but ea said its once per book'

Craven says, 'no'

Craven says, 'but it affects you failing 17 times'

Mortisha sinks her teeth into LadyAce's flesh.

Mortisha nudges LadyAce.

Jade says, 'well, at least you can test it, damagewise.'

LadyAce scuffles dirt onto Mortisha's shoes.

Craven shrugs helplessly.

Craven says, 'whats the piont in testing something I can't use?'

Craven says, 'thats like testing headbutt with 40 con'

Jade says, 'and know that lightningbolt is better anyway.'

Craven says, 'well yea, I decimate on stuns from ehadbutts!'

Craven says, 'woo!'

Craven says, 'of course I hit 1 in 100..'

Mortisha says, 'ive tried create mages and i just dont like em, im not into the charmie thing'

Craven says, 'create mages are fun if your patient'

Mortisha says, 'and i haven't even made it to third circle yet'

Craven says, 'balm is actually not THAT bad as long as your third circle and have high mind'

Jade says to Craven, 'test it on a charmy, you are create ;)'

Izikiel says, 'As is everyother character'

Craven says, 'but as a second circle where you have no charms...'

Craven says, 'you have to tank for the most part'

Mortisha nods solemnly.

Craven says, 'thus balm is incredibly underpowered'

McDougan says, 'sae propose a way tae get muir charmsh!'

Mortisha says, 'i cant even handle a few skeletons and zombies withouth getting myself kileld'

Craven says, 'as semirhage I can balm and keep going for quite awhile unless a mob decides to smash me'

Izikiel says, 'Something that takes more time and is useless for a greater part of the time while playing should hit harder at the end.'

Kaige says, '3rd circle has nothing to do with it.'

Kaige looks up into the sky and ponders.

Kaige shrugs philosophically.

Craven says, '3rd circle have the same spells and more options'

Craven says, 'I hit as hard as semirhage'

Craven says, 'the difference is I have backstab, she has charmies'

Craven says, 'her charmies tank FOR her, therefore balm isn't that important'

Craven says, 'I tank for me, therefore balm has an incredible impact on me'

Jade says to Kaige, 'sure it does, more incentive to be 100 mind as third circle, MUCH more.'

Mortisha says, 'i like tanking for myself'

Kaige says, 'well not as far as one spell is concerned tho. A 3c's balm is gonna be comparable to the same mind's 2c spell'

Craven sighs loudly.

Craven says, 'fine, another question'

Izikiel says to Craven, 'Well I'm a 3c, but you got more time to get a higher level of arms and the such'

Craven says, 'why should I have 90 mind as a 2nd circle create?'

Mortisha says, 'and the only way i can do that is if i can heal myself some way fast'

Craven says, 'if I'm going to have 90 mind, I might as well BE 3rd circle'

Craven says, 'the only instance thats not true is druids'

Mortisha says, 'poultices cure crit'

Hrath says to Craven, 'to adapt?'

Izikiel says, 'Why do you play a character you don't understand'

Craven says, 'hrath...I thought you were cool, don't push it'

Kaige says, 'not if you want to do other things.. depends on how starong a mage you want to be'

Craven sighs loudly.

Craven says, 'fine, let me get this straight'

Craven says, 'to be an effective 2nd circle create, which btw is LESS then a third circle, I have to have identical stats to a third circle?'

Craven says, 'oh wait, I get 10 more perc and 5 more spirit'

Izikiel smiles happily.

Craven says, 'woo me'

Izikiel says to Craven, 'Well I hate to break the news, but you can't get a cause/create full 3c 100 in all stats pk char'

Mortisha says, 'i dont see much benefit in having 100 mind as a cause mage, so i do a little more damage with a immolate, or i might cure crit 5 extra hp so what'

Craven says, 'I have mages with very good stats'

Craven says, 'mandarb has 97 dex, + a ton of hp gear and 90 mind'

Craven says, 'he would MOP the floor with me if I had 90 mind or 50'

Craven says, 'not to mention what exactly is 90 mind going to net me?'

Craven says, 'its not going to net me bigger charmies, thats based on my con'

Craven says, 'more mana I can't use?'

Ea! says, 'We could always just pull cure crit.'

Jade says to Craven, 'alot more useless mana? :p'

Craven says, 'mages can see through dopples regardless of my mind'

Jade beams at Ea! delightedly.

Mortisha says, 'so you will have no 3rd circle cause mages'

Jade says to Ea!, 'do it.'

Craven says, 'I guess I get a strong sink and balm'

Izikiel squeezes Ea!'s nose and says, 'HONK HONK.'

Craven says, 'causes need to lose skeletons if anything, that way they have to tank'

Mortisha says, 'cause i certainly will have not much reason to play them'

Mortisha says, 'i do tank skeletons dont last very long 500 hp or not'

Craven says, '2 skeletons can tank just about anything'

Craven says, 'and if you set up a network of them...'

Jade says, 'I agree with cause not having charmies, completely.'

Mortisha says, 'try hibbins'

Craven says, 'its a continuous cycle of xp'

Craven says, 'hibbins isn't supposed to be soloable'

Mortisha says, 'i did it with 15 charmies all 15 died right away'

Izikiel says to Craven, 'Not true'

Craven says, 'I don't care if I can solo her or not'

Craven says, 'and 15 skeletons is impossible'

Jade says, 'hibbins is natbait.'

Devi says, 'wow'

Craven says, 'well, I'm sick of yelling at a brick wall'

Craven says, 'you arell love 2nd circle create so keep it up I guess'

Craven says, 'at least your happy'

Mortisha says, 'before the limits it wasnt'

Craven says, 'I truely wonder if you PLAY any 2nd circle creates without augment though'

Craven says, 'cuz I certainly won't believe you if you told me you did'

Ea! says to Craven, 'Which part of "we're planning on changing this in a few weeks or months" is unclear?'

Craven shrugs helplessly.

Craven says, 'good luck'

Izikiel cheers wildly!

Mortisha says, 'doesnt care what you think either way'

Mortisha says, 'oh hes gone oh well'

Jade says to Ea!, 'the part that you didn't say ok, let me go throw in a fix right now"'

LadyAce giggles.

Kaige says, 'the part that says "I have the worst possible stats to think of using that skill at 100% effectiveness, so it must be screwy?"'

Jade says to Ea!, 'you hit the nail on the head tho, yank curecrit.'

Mortisha punches Jade in the face - better stand back!

Jade says to Kaige, 'well, he has a good point, however lame he is in discussing it.'

Jade says to Mortisha, 'hey, Im cause saying that..'

Kaige says, 'that he isn't getting an instantaneous fix for pkill/balm, yes, we got that.'

Ea! says, 'In general, he's right. though for him, his unwillingness to modify his stats make the problem worse.'

Jade says to Ea!, 'there's no good reason besides balm for him to raise em.'

LadyAce says, 'ok I need to go get ready to go to jujitsu :)'

Mortisha attempts to prod LadyAce but LadyAce isn't about to go anywhere.

Jade says to Ea!, 'it isnt worth losing the fight stats for a second circle, honestly.'

Ea! says, 'the problem is, if everyone else decides it's worth it to raise their stats and starts kicking ass in pkill, and we then make the balm even more powerful, we've just hurt things even more.'

Ea! says, 'which is why we need to give it time.'

LadyAce says, 'thanks for coming, everyone'

LadyAce waves happily.

LadyAce slowly fades into thin air.

Izikiel waves happily.

Jade says to Ea!, 'aye, but it's quite frustrating till you find a good medium'

Ea! says, 'I agree, it's unlikely that that will happen, but, we wouldn't know by now.'

Ea! says, 'Okay, I've got to go now, too.'

Ea! waves happily.

Kaige says, 'and I have to fix dinner'

Kir waves good-bye to Kaige.

Kaige says, 'thanks for coming. =)'

Kaige gives gives a big hug to everyone in the room.

Kaige waves happily.

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