August 30th, 2001

Change and Constructive Criticism

Kaige says, 'Sorry I can't stay, but I need to get going here... I just wanted to comment that keeping the discussion on an even keel and not taking it to a personal level would be more helpful to everyone in the long run.'

Kaige says, 'I know this was a rather sudden and unexpected change, and had way more ramifications than were expected.'

Gereint says, 'well, like maida said, it's not _that_ bad'

Soze agrees.

Gereint says, 'just scared a few people'

Kyna says, 'I think it had ramifications beyond the coding and what creates can do now.'

Kaige says, 'but some of the stuff that I saw in regards to it on the discussion board was NOT discussion, but just plain rude temper tantrums that won't do any good on many levels.'

Soze says, 'I'd say my chartype is -probably- the one it hurts the most with.'

Kaige waves happily.

LadyAce says, 'Okie, let's get started. I'm going to go with hands, and I want to let people with NON-homunculi questions go first :)'

Change to Magic Roots

Gereint says, 'what change will be done to roots?'

Soze bonks Gereint on the head!

Kae says, 'issa inna works'

LadyAce says, 'that's still in testing, I believe'

Gereint looks up into the sky and ponders.

Sandra says, 'weed killer. They'll shrivel up and die!'

Kae laughs with amusement.

Lilian snickers softly.

Kyna says, 'if we had effective healing, this would have been a non-event.'

Gereint says, 'is it being downgraded or changed to 3c? or...? not at liberty to say?'

Sandra is afk: back shortly|U6

LadyAce says, 'we're not releasing details on it right now'

Ea! says, 'It'll have the same words.'

LadyAce says, 'but the change is inspired by a design flaw, not really a matter of power.'

Gereint says, 'can you tell me what flaw?'

Amairgen says, 'the hunger thing?'

Soze nods his agreement with Amairgen.

LadyAce says, 'the hunger thing, yup'

Ea! says, 'We don't like that players are encouraged to starve themselves.'

Soze would think so.

Gereint says, 'heh'

LadyAce says, 'it sucks to starve to heal when heal rate is based on being ... full.'

Gereint nods solemnly.

LadyAce says, 'so we're trying a different approach that doesn't have that problem'

Gereint nods solemnly.

Nanok says, 'What if rather than making roots, the mage made healing balms or oils?'

LadyAce says, 'we've already coded the spell, we're past the design stage right now'

Nanok says, 'that way no hunger would be needed'

LadyAce says, 'wait and see what we have, and see what you think of it.'

Nanok says, 'Ok'

Kyna says, 'how long a wait?'

Gereint snickers softly.

Nanok chuckles politely.

LadyAce says, 'I don't think it'll be all that much longer, I thought we were about ready?'

LadyAce raises her eyebrow at Ea!.

Gereint says, 'wow'

Gereint says, 'spiff'

Ea! says to LadyAce, 'Yeah, basically, I need to convince myself that it's ready. Might want to do one or two small things still.'

Soze says, 'oh'

Soze says, 'since the words are the same, castlevel will be the same'

Soze says, 'or will we have to flop around for spellbooks?'

Gereint says, 'sounds right'

Ea! says, 'Cast level will be the same.'

Amairgen says to Ea!, 'need an independent beta tester?'

Marcel giggles.

Soze applauds Ea!'s quick thinking and good judgment.

LadyAce says, 'it'll be a drop in replacement for roots'

Gereint looks up into the sky and ponders.

LadyAce says, 'the words that cast roots, will make the new spell happen instead'

Soze says, 'just questioning whether it would be treated as a new spell like frost bolt eg.'

Marcel says, 'like the original cure serious was replaced by roots, I take it?'

Sandra nods her agreement with Marcel.

Ea! nods his agreement with Marcel.

Created Items

Soze says, 'in the "why aren't create's create weapon, clothes whathaveyou, section", have you considered making swords, etc, like a wand -- a non-preserve item with a net 5 stats'

Nanok raises his eyebrow at Soze.

Sandra shudders.

Marcel says, 'that'd demand a steeeeep mana price'

Soze says, 'each time x time has passed it will release a charge and drop one stat'

Soze nods his agreement with Marcel.

Soze says, 'when charges are up, thing dies'

Soze says, 'and -non-illusionary'

Gereint says, 'heh'

Sandra says, 'I have a big problem with making the sword and dagger anything other than what they are'

Soze says, 'just thinking, that create mages are create mages not illusionists'

Marcel shudders at the mana cost of +5 items.

Sandra says, 'considering that a) they're VERY LOW RENT and b) out of spec already'

Soze says, 'make them higher rent?'

LadyAce says, 'I think we had some ideas for similar functionality but using craftsperson skills in trees. I think we probably will want to keep that aside for that'

Sandra says, 'you're talking alot higher rent'

Soze says, 'I am? if they cost alot of mana, are non-preserva'ble and timed?'

LadyAce says, 'like the jewels you install into a weapon, runes you etch on the blade, that kinda thing'

Sandra nods her agreement with Soze.

Soze says, 'and drop stats as they go?'

Gereint says to LadyAce, 'socket weapons!'

Marcel says to Soze, 'but, you're also talking no effort of beating up their owner'

Nanok says, 'Your implementing rune etching???'

Soze raises an eyebrow inquiringly.

Soze says, 'oh, right'

LadyAce says to Nanok, 'it's a trees thing'

Sandra says, 'runes are nifty'

Gereint says, 'sounds like a skilltree skill'

Marcel says to Soze, 'I won't kill Metacomat, I'll just make his necklace'

Nanok cheers for LadyAce - huzzah!

Soze says to Marcel, 'not if you want it to be permanent and don't want to spend 4K mana each time you log on'

Kyna says, 'they'd have to drop stats faster than you can regen to make another, otherwise - it's dropped one stat, time to make another.'

Ea! says, 'Actually, I think runes ended up not being things you etched into weapons just because we already have enough ways to modify items...'

Soze says to Marcel, 'starting over when you finish because it's timed and it will have droppped stats'

Marcel says to Soze, 'Yes, I'm just pointing out that if these items will ever happen, the price rent and mana wise will be absurd'

Gereint still wants ethereal archer on his shamshir!

LadyAce giggles at Gereint.

Soze looks up into the sky and ponders.

LadyAce says to Soze, 'the diminishing stats thing is a new twist, would you put that in on idea?'

Soze can't see just why, but is certain you have good reasons to.

Marcel likes the idea, but notes it'll be verra verra costly.

LadyAce says, 'might be useful in another context if not the same one you're thinking. Or maybe in the same one, but not right away.'

Ea! says, 'The current spec for runes has you creating runestones which you can then cast upon the ground either by themselves or in a pair causing different effects. If I remember right, one method of casting has "personal" effects, the other "group" effects.'

Amairgen says, 'or room effects?'

Kyna says, 'ooh, group effects ... nice.'

Nanok says, 'Oh, so they are like the Norse Casting Runes...'

LadyAce says, 'right, they're a viking hometown kind of thing'

Ea! says, 'Rufus did a lot of research into the Nordic Runelore.'

Nanok says, 'Did you say Viking hometown? =)'

LadyAce says, 'someday :)'

Nanok beams delightedly.

Ea! says, 'In terms of coding effort, though, they're about as much effort as another mage school. Probably not quite as bad...'

Skill Trees & Prior Stuff

Nanok says, 'Hehehe.....how far has skill trees progressed?'

Gereint laughs with amusement.

Ea! says, 'Not at all in months.'

Gereint says to Marcel, 'see!'

Nanok says, 'It had to be asked'

Soze says, 'oooh, a golden oldie!'

LadyAce says, 'we're not actively working on the trees, just on stuff that needs to be done before trees'

Soze cheers for Nanok - huzzah!

Marcel cries on Gereint's shoulder.

Gereint hugs Marcel.

Nanok comforts Marcel.

Nanok says, 'such as?'

LadyAce says, 'the new poisons'

Gereint drools contentedly.

Amairgen throws his head back and cackles with insane glee!

Kae says, 'board.c'

Soze rolls around laughing at Kae's joke.

LadyAce says, 'a lot of trees skills need poisons to make them work'

Amairgen looks at Kae and shudders.

Xena says, 'they're prolly sick of hearin bout em by know'

Ea! says, 'Lots of little bug fixes.'

Nanok says, 'Poisons?'

Gereint says, 'yeah'

Soze says, 'coma-state poisons'

Soze grins evilly.

Nanok nods solemnly.

LadyAce says, 'different kinds of ways to be messed up :)'

Nanok chuckles politely.

Soze slowly gets back to his feet, shaking his head.

Gereint says, 'like diffrent diseases?'

Kae says to Soze, 'like that?'

You do a slow fade as Soze whines at Kae, hoping he won't get to you too.

LadyAce says, 'kinda like diseases, yeah'

Nanok says, 'An intoxication poison would really suck in PK'

Amairgen says, 'make burns and plague do stuff?'

Gereint says, 'well let's imp the brew for feverfew too'

Gereint attempts to take cover.

Soze says, 'which is why you want to carry anti-poison vials'

Xena says to Kae, 'you're just mean :P'

Kae says, 'oo oo oo, so poultice against burns actually means something!'

Nanok chuckles politely.

Amairgen nods his agreement with Kae.

LadyAce says, 'we'd like to make every affect have some purpose to it, sure.'

LadyAce says, 'but poisons are on the top of the pile at the present'

Ea! says, 'The thing about the new poisons is that it'll be a lot easier to treat the symptoms than the poison itself.'

Gereint says, 'sweet'

Marcel approves.

Nanok nods solemnly.

LadyAce says, 'and if I can keep my dear husband from killing himself with over work...he might even finish them before I kill him for overworking.'

Kyna giggles.

LadyAce gives a quick polish to her halo. It now shines brightly.

Ea! says, 'Players might be able to put poison someone, but the real evil effects will require it to be on the person for a long time.'

Nanok shudders.

Amairgen says, 'no more renting off?'

Gereint says, 'heh'

Marcel says, 'and impossible to rent off, right?'

Gereint says, 'evil'

LadyAce says, 'renting off is laaaaame. Easy, but laaaaaame'

Ea! says, 'Oh, right. That's on the list to go in sometime before I finish the poisons.'

Marcel beams delightedly.

Kyna says, 'will hometown wells become unpoisonable when this goes in ... or cures easy to access for newbies who can't get help?'

Ea! says, 'Hopefully sooner rather than later. We've only got one bug in the code.'

Soze was going to ask about that next.

Nanok says, 'Will the plague do more than it does now?'

LadyAce says to Kyna, 'we'll definitely put in ways to deal with newbies and such, yes'

Ea! says, 'I think we'll probably put in offline healing at the same time -- you'll heal (*slowly*) while offline.'

Soze says to Ea!, 'does that include -all- 'bad' effects or only poison?'

LadyAce nods her agreement with Ea!.

Amairgen says, 'will these cures be documented in Herblore or must we discover them?'

LadyAce says to Soze, 'i believe it was affs in general, good bad and ugly'

Soze tugs on Ea!'s sleeve imploringly.

Soze says, 'wee'

Gereint says, 'or better yet, will the whole skilltree set be mapped out before hand so we can see it all?'

Soze says, 'good'

Kae says to Amairgen, 'I know Kaige is working on herbs overall, I'm sure she's got something up her sleeve.'

Kyna says, 'sometimes I rent off fly so I can go ooc, if I want to read the boards.'

LadyAce says to Amairgen, 'I think you can expect to have ways to find out cures other than pure trial and error'

Marcel says, 'dispel magic'

Ea! says, 'I think that there will be methods other than just herbs to cure poisons, but I haven't gotten that far yet.'

Soze nods his agreement with Marcel.

Kyna says, 'what if I'm not a mage who is flying?'

Ea! says to Kyna, 'Oh, yeah, that's a good point, too. We'll need to deal with that issue.'

Soze says, 'you carry bubbly vials'

Gereint snickers softly.

LadyAce says to Gereint, 'we'll have to cross that bridge when we come to it, but some kind of info on all the new skills sounds reasonable.'

Kyna says, 'just to go ooc? why can't we go ooc while flying anyway? or have a land command.'

Marcel says, 'though, it kind of sucks for anyone not 3c create to have to rent to do something inside the game.'

Gereint nods solemnly.

Gereint says, 'land command, heh, I like that'

Kyna says, 'and a vis command if we're invis.'

LadyAce says, 'at that point, we may well put in the oft-discussed change to ooc -- you have to rent and enter from the menu'

Amairgen says, 'bah! yank ooc, and put the discussion board ic'

Amairgen says, 'oh, that works too'

LadyAce says, 'rather than having to ditch your spells, they'll be handled by the 'while you're rented' code'

Kae says to Amairgen, 'there are more functions in ooc than boards :p'

Soze says, 'why exactly is it, that you can go ooc with strength and bless spell, others like eg, fly, you can't?'

LadyAce says, 'because we don't have a way to block all of the spells'

Soze says, 'ah'

Soze says, 'so, it has to be imp'ed in every spell?'

LadyAce says, 'each one needs a separate bit of code to make it mob-noticeable'

Soze cringes in terror.

LadyAce says, 'and it's a giant unwieldy list of mob commands that look you over before letting you in'

Soze nods solemnly.

LadyAce says, 'uggggly'

Code Update?

Kyna says, 'is there a code update this week?'

Nanok chuckles politely.

Ea! nods solemnly.

LadyAce says, 'he's workin on the post i believe'

Ea! says, 'There is, I'm working on the list now.'

LadyAce nods solemnly.

New Skills/Spells Coming?

Psylin says, 'are any new spells/skills going in anytime?'

Nanok jumps in the air and slams a thunderous high-5 with Psylin!

Psylin grins evilly.

LadyAce says, 'a change to roots should go in soonish'

Psylin says, 'kewl'

LadyAce says, 'and the elementals beef-up Ea alluded to in his discussion board post are also in the works.'

Hassan says, 'no'

Soze says, 'oh, another question on the create healing'

Kyna says, 'how long in the works?'

Soze says, 'hmm, I think you answered that indirectly'

Ea! says, 'A week from tommorow.'

Gereint nods solemnly.

Kyna says, 'what are the changes to ellies?'

Soze says, 'will it still be 2c based so that 3c creates don't have a benefit in being devoted mages?'

Ea! says, 'Since the imm staff has had a total of about 7 minutes to see them and might object to some of them, I think it's premature... to announce them, that is.'

Kyna nods solemnly.

Kae's peeking now -- and dancing.

Soze giggles at Ea!.

Ea! says, 'As it's quite possible someone will object.'

LadyAce says to Soze, 'as far as I know, the change is to a 2nd circle spell'

Soze flops about helplessly.

Psylin cheers wildly!

Gereint nods solemnly.

LadyAce says to Soze, 'so it's not going to help you cast the 2nd circle spell if you're 3rd circle....'

Soze says to LadyAce, 'any chance of having a 3c implemented? [seeing as I have no idea of what the new one will be]'

Psylin grins evilly.

Ea! says, 'That's one of the things that's still on my list to look into... whether to make another option for 3cs.'

Soze cheers for Ea! - huzzah!

Soze says to Ea!, 'need ideas for it?'

Gereint snickers softly.

LadyAce says to Ea!, 'we should see how powerful the current one is first'

Soze says to Ea!, 'or are you working on something?'

Ea! says to Soze, 'I've got an idea what I'd like it to do, but I'm not sure if we should do it yet...'

LadyAce says, 'It'd probably be a deluxe version of the current spell rather than a new direction'

Gereint says, 'heh'

LadyAce says, 'so you should wait and see what the current spell is and then make your suggestions'

Psylin grins evilly.

Ea! eats a small piece of paper from Ea!.

Psylin says, 'kewl'

Kyna says, 'will we be able to heal charmies with the new spell?'

LadyAce says, 'you'll hafta wait and see what the change is :)'

Soze says to Ea!, 'nod, just whether you would like ideas for how it could work, *shrug*'

LadyAce says, 'suggest changes to it after it goes in. It's a surprise.'

Psylin says, 'you should make a new charmie for creates in 2nd c hehe'

Gereint says, 'heh'

Psylin says, 'let us make foaming ferrets heh'

Kae says, 'hey, that's my job'

Gereint says, 'shoot him!'

Gereint says, 'wow, view will be neat'

Kyna nods solemnly.

Marcel nods his agreement with Gereint.

Polearms

Nanok says, 'If there's no more questions can we discuss my Pole arm ideas?'

Nanok nods his agreement with Psylin.

LadyAce says to Nanok, 'use idea and wait...is gonna be the best answer we can give you there'

Nanok nods solemnly.

Kae nudges the big bag of ideas from HELL! over a few inches.

Soze laughs at Kae.

Kae says, 'mudmail Kae for Hell specific ideas works too'

LadyAce says to Nanok, 'go scout out a few medieval areas, and use idea to suggest which mobs might benefit from a revision'

Nanok nods solemnly.

LadyAce says to Nanok, 'it's a cool idea, it's just not the sort of thing that "happens" right away.'

Nanok chuckles politely.

Nanok says to LadyAce, 'Yeah. I think it would be cool to have dual attack weapons that take advantage of arms training and fencing'

Homunculi/Mages/Charmies/Etc

Kyna says, 'I have 4 questions relating to homunculi - 2 directly about the change, and two about issues arising from the way the change was handled.'

Kyna says, '4 weeks ago at the Q&A you said you didn't want to be dragged back into balance. I'd like to know what changed your mind and prompted this balance change.'

LadyAce says, 'Someone caught Ea at a weak moment?'

Gereint says, 'Ea! weak?'

Soze says, 'perhaps this was more of a reality check than a balance thing?'

Psylin says, 'EA! ROCKS'

Lorenzo says, 'this one has been in development a long time, hasn't it?'

Ea! says, 'The goal behind the change wasn't balance. It was making a mob that's designed to carry stuff closer to the original intention.'

Soze nods his agreement with Ea!.

Soze cheers for Ea! - huzzah!

Kyna says, 'it hit balance.'

Kyna says, 'it caught me by surprise, and generated some of my anger, because I'd believed you when you said no balance changes for a while.'

Lorenzo says, 'well, longer than 4 weeks.'

Kae says, 'Actually, I'm the one who campaigned for a change to homies, as the first step in a series of tweaks to charmies. You may lynch me now.'

Sandra says, 'that's a bonus then!'

Kyna says, 'I feel like I can't believe imms as much as I used to. And that's sad.'

Gereint says, 'but if you did it to get ellies better'

Ea! says, 'Additionally, I wanted to clean up some of the wackiness in the charmies -- places where perc was used for assigning stats, etc.'

LadyAce says, 'We find it difficult to know when a small feature fix will turn into a balance issue'

Ea! says, 'I chose homunculi first because of the porter issue and because it's one place to change, unlike elementals, which require 8 changes.'

Kyna nods solemnly.

Kyna says, 'well that was one point.'

Kae says, 'I think it's also fair to point out that homies were used a lot more in the way that they shouldn't, than we really realized, or we'd have protested before you even heard about it.'

LadyAce says, 'and if that makes you think that we aren't as straightforward as we can be, I don't think that's a problem we can solve'

LadyAce says, 'we try to predict the results of our changes, and we're not always successful.'

Kyna says, 'next comment ...'

LadyAce nods solemnly.

Kyna says, 'until kae posted on the board, it looked like the imm position was that we were lazy whiners with a narrow view who want it too easy, don't want to compromise and how dare we be angry if it's not as rewarding as it used to be.'

Kae says, 'May I comment on that?'

Kyna says, 'I understand that was a response to the anger we as players demonstrated.'

Kae sucks in her breath.

Gereint snickers softly.

Soze says to Kae, 'no!'

LadyAce says, 'well, I guess that is a reason why so few imms are even willing to post on the discussion board'

Ea! says, 'Er, did I say that? I certainly didn't mean to say anything like that.'

Kae says, 'thing is, as a non-coder at least, you don't *really* know the nitty gritty details of the upcoming changes.'

Kyna says, 'no, the only imm who did post said that.'

Kyna says, 'until Kae posted.'

Kae says, 'if we post somethin, anything, it gets taken VERY literally.'

Gereint says, 'choc?'

LadyAce says, 'until you see every imm post an opinion on the board, you won't know what the imm opinion is....'

Kae says, 'That's why we're generally a bit shy about posting about stuff we don't really know inside out.'

Sandra says, '1 imm != all imms, and != the general imm position, unless it's stated in the post'

Kae says, 'If I post something and it turns out the coders do something else, we're almost just short of being sued for what I said.'

Kyna says, 'and since there was no other imm post on the board, and his name was on the wizlist as a coder ...'

Ea! says, 'I had family in town and didn't get a chance to post anything until Sunday, when I posted the brief note explaining the goals behind the change. Sometimes it happens.'

Gereint says, 'heh, you didnt expect this outcome eh?'

Ea! says, 'I posted a good three days before Choc did...'

LadyAce says, 'Ea doesn't preapprove his staff's posts, they post what's on their mind. If they are more inspired to react to tone or side comments, they won't cover what they think of the actual substance.'

Kae says, 'I find that generally, most immortals will hesitate to post on topics that aren't their project out of fear of players feeling that we lie to them when we're wrong.'

Kyna says, 'so that's my whinge done ... now on to more direct stuff. I'd like to explain the function that homunculi played for me. I gather that's a point nobody on the imm understood.'

Kyna reports: 352/352 hp 584/584 mana 409/409 mv.

Kyna says, 'The problem is this. I can't tank because I can't effectively heal. My doppel has small HPs, and is an illusion. My ellies have 142 HPs. Besides homunculi I can only have 6 tanks, none of them very big. I'm not a good duo/group proposition because I have mage stats, not fighter stats.'

LadyAce says, 'we understand the 'tank' element of charmies, but I think we probably only considered them as one option among several, not the only option.'

Kyna says, 'because of these factors combined, I need more tanking ability. If I was con, I wouldn't have a problem, or if I had decent healing.'

Kyna says, 'but it's too late to go con prac wise.'

Kae says, 'healing is in the works, I think it's safe to drop that for now'

LadyAce says, 'we'd rather make the set of charmies be a group of different options with strengths and weaknesses, rather than a 'useful' and 'useless' set.'

Kyna says, 'thing is I need tanks. And ellies/dops don't cut it with my con.'

Sandra says, 'greater summoning?'

Marcel says, 'there is little arguing I think that the formula for ellies is not too great'

Kyna says, 'they don't have much more than my dop.'

Marcel says, 'seeing as they're based on the caster's hp'

LadyAce says, 'we're doing what we can to put elementals in a good position to serve that purpose, so that you won't end up with armies of homuncs'

Kyna says, 'which leads on to my last point ... revising how ellies HP are generated.'

Kyna says, 'I'd like to see a mind/mana based HP formula if possible, and please don't base them on spirit.'

Soze would like that though.

Marcel says, 'I'd love mind/mana, with a spi bonus on top'

Kyna says, 'I need every HP I can summon to tank, if I go 100 min/spi, 40 con/per, 100 fight stat, that's 31 more HPs than the max possible.'

Soze says, 'spritual bond to the earth makes better elementals.. makes sense to me.'

Soze shrugs helplessly.

LadyAce nods her agreement with Soze.

Ea! says, 'You're not going to manage to convince us that we shouldn't be putting more emphasis on spirit. It's a major balance problem with the game currently.'

Soze says, 'I'd personally like to see a new class of mages'

Soze says, '100 mind/spririt creates'

Kyna says, 'but then con has the advantage, cos they have more free stats to send to spirit.'

Soze says, 'useless with a weapon'

Soze says, 'summons an army and do stuff'

Marcel says, 'con also hits like girls, though'

Kyna says, 'so once again con, who already have the highest hps, get the biggest tanks.'

Marcel says to Kyna, 'it's worth remembering that con depends on their gimps to actually use those hp, though'

Marcel says, 'seeing as they can't hit a brick wall unless they're tied to it unless they have a lot of +hit gear'

Kyna says, 'its worth remembering that if I'm putting every stat I can on spirit, I have a huge -dam too.'

Sandra says, 'having it based on mind/mana is like saying base it on mind/mind. I don't think that spirit should play as big a factor as mind in their hp, but I do agree that it should be factored in'

Gereint says, 'it's all about +hit'

Marcel says, 'yeah -- mind, with a spirit bonus for the fanatic.'

Kyna says, 'so I'd get you hit 9 times ... you pierce, with that sort of dam?'

Marcel says to Kyna, 'with my con alt, averaging pound is considering good hitting'

Marcel says, 'hp for him is, thing that keeps me here long enough to use flamestrike till they die.'

Gereint says to Marcel, 'get a huge spiked q staff! '

Soze says, 'right, you'll need 80 strength to vield it'

Gereint snickers softly.

LadyAce says, 'I think it's safe to say that we're getting sucked back into doing balance changes, at this point. We managed to stay out of them for a few weeks, but it feels like we're slipping backwards.'

Soze says, 'I'd personally like to see a 100 mind 100 cons 80 strength create mage with only one held slot'

LadyAce says, 'down into the mire of balance :P'

Ea! says, 'I'm hoping that we can do the "surgical strike" approach -- go in, make a few changes, and get back out.'

Sandra says, 'I might have one of those'

Soze says, 'as long as you change something that's class based, you probably will be'

Soze shrugs helplessly.

Sandra looks up into the sky and ponders.

LadyAce hugs Ea!.

LadyAce says to Ea!, 'I love it when you're optimistic'

Ea! giggles at LadyAce.

Kyna says, 'I feel that if there's too much of an emphasis on spirit in any new formula that it won't be as much benefit for dex or str as it is to con, who are the ones who got hit by this homunculi change.'

Kyna says, 'dex/str hit, I mean.'

LadyAce says, 'the problem we run into is that if we don't give spr some kinda power, it will always be stuck without it'

Soze says, 'if it's changed from con/hp whatever it is now, based to mind/spirit, I can't see how?'

Soze nods his agreement with LadyAce.

Marcel says, 'we also have to keep in mind that con, unlike dex/str, depends on its gimps to stay alive long enough to use spells.'

Kyna says, 'if creates need more spirit, then it becomes unbalanced because cause dont.'

Marcel says, 'I do know this first hand :)'

LadyAce says, 'we're trying to empower spr across the board'

LadyAce says, 'so creates are just a piece of the puzzle from that regard'

Soze says, 'oh, another thing while we are at mages and spirit'

Soze says, 'according to the creation helpfiles'

Soze says, 'mind and spirit are the prime stats of mages'

Vanion tips his hat gallantly.

Soze says, 'and seeing as you only need 43 spirit for certain skills and more spirit seems erm, useless'

LadyAce says, 'at any rate, thanks for the feedback on the changes. It takes us some time to adjust to any comments made'

Soze would just like to see spirit have a benefit besides augment and surgeons.

Vanion says, 'nah 60 is a big difference'

LadyAce nods her agreement with Soze.

LadyAce says, 'who else has comments or questions they'd like to raise?'

Marcel says, 'yepyep, then I have an excuse to get new clothes yet again'

Kyna says, 'I guess I fear that creates will be the first piece ... then balance will be shelved (and I'm not arguing with shelving balance by itself), and it will be a long time before other pieces are put in.'

Vanion says, '1 suggestion run a mini-plot ....siggestion 2 include me'

Vanion waves happily.

Vanion smiles happily.

LadyAce says to Kyna, 'I wouldn't worry too much about that until the elemental changes go in'

LadyAce says, 'the empower spr effort isn't really running at full tilt'

LadyAce says, 'it's just that every time a change comes up, it sits there in the back of minds and says 'hey, add a spr bonus!' or 'hey, consider spr in that formula''

Soze says to LadyAce, 'consider my comments suggestions/oppinions that's all'

Kyna says, 'although it would be nice to see fighters not have a free stat ... to have a need for that spirit.'

LadyAce says, 'we hafta start somewhere.'

LadyAce says to Soze, 'we always do. Did you have more to make?'

Marcel says, 'Gereint and I were JUST chitchattin here about a fighter spirit stat use...'

LadyAce nods her agreement with Kyna.

Soze says, 'I have more yep'

Gereint nods solemnly.

Gereint says, 'yea'

Marcel says, 'we'll bring it up next time'

Gereint nods solemnly.

Gereint grins evilly.

Soze says, 'me now again?'

Soze peers at himself myopically.

LadyAce says to Soze, 'I think so.'

Soze chuckles politely.

Soze says, 'I think I raised this question once before'

Soze says, 'however, it seemed appropriate ..'

Soze says, 'how about instead of having a stock char "3c create/cause" mage'

Soze says, 'your primary fight stat or another would also affect which spells/how well you cast them'

Gereint looks up into the sky and ponders.

Gereint says, 'like str for immolate? dex for gust? like that?'

Soze says, 'like eg, a strength 3c mage would erm, be better at x spell than a dex 3c mage of the same school'

Gereint nods solemnly.

Marcel says, 'ow ow ow, skill trees, definitely'

LadyAce says, 'that'd be an interesting way to add more variation'

Ea! says, 'It'd be a balancing nightmare.'

Soze giggles.

Ea! says, 'Also, it'd probably require a lot more spells.'

Soze says, 'probably, but, I was talking on the variation of mages'

Marcel says, 'I stand corrected, *after* skill trees...'

Soze says, 'people don't ask if you are a 3c mage'

LadyAce says, 'the problem there is that we try to make it so that no two spells are equal'

Gereint snickers softly.

Soze says, 'the ask which stock char (c) you are'

Kyna says, 'Sounds good, I'd rather be 40 str (for the not negative dam) than 40 con ... keep stumbling over that con req.'

LadyAce says, 'so to make a protection against what isn't equal requires unequal protections, and that's where the numbers game comes in something fierce'

Kae says, 'here I get to chirp again, that with every new area and every new toy, we do get more variation on 'stock' characters'

Gereint nods solemnly.

Soze says, 'I was thinking perhaps adding 4 new spells, and give them equal advanteges in different ways'

Soze says, 'and make the one -designed- to cast the spell, better at it, than one thast's not'

LadyAce says to Soze, 'I agree that we want to do everything we can to fight stock chars, certainly'

LadyAce says, 'well, but then I'd just use a spell that didn't take that into account when I wouldn't win the comparison...'

Soze says, 'uhh?'

Kyna says, 'mages wont have access to expert proficiencies as fighters under skill trees, will they?'

Soze says, '-that- is another way to do it'

Soze shrugs helplessly.

Soze is stull cursing a bit that mages are able to use swords/daggers whathaveyou, as well as the other person who devotes his life to that alone.

Marcel says, 'almost as well'

Lorenzo says to Kyna, 'why shouldn't they? that's treating mages as some particular type of character, rather than as someone who knows how to chant and has a certain stat level.'

LadyAce says, 'I think we'd like to give different advantages to specializing than we give to generalizing'

LadyAce says, 'at present there's no reason to be anything other than a generalist.'

Soze nods his agreement with LadyAce.

Kyna says, 'my surgeon hits better than me cos she has more fight stats, damroll eq, etc. So mages don't hit as well as fighters.'

Haley slowly fades into thin air.

A heavenly aura appears in the room, is that Haley?

Lorenzo says to Kyna, 'Maybe I just don't follow what "mage" means to you at this moment.'

Kyna says, 'I guess it means someone who has over 60 mind, 43 spir, 40 con, 40 perc, and comes from agrabah, in the sense that I just used it.'

Lorenzo nods solemnly.

Soze looks up into the sky and ponders.

Soze wants to rant.

Marcel chuckles politely.

LadyAce says, 'ooh, go right on ahead'

Kyna says, 'sorry, two tell conversations ...'

Soze says, 'right'

LadyAce says, 'I thought it was related to Kyna's comments from before.'

Soze says, 'ideas for how spirit could benefit fighters'

Gereint looks up into the sky and ponders.

Soze says, 'fight off poisons/blindness and general physical abnormalities faster?'

Marcel gets this sly 'gimme a few days to write down notes and...' gleam in his eyes.

LadyAce says, 'I think we usually think of con when we think of that'

Soze says, 'right.., though it don't really work for con :P'

Soze says, 'anyway, just a suggestion'

Marcel wants to be hunted by rabid 10 spi fighters everywhere.

LadyAce giggles at Marcel.

Soze laughs with amusement.

Marcel says, 'just want to think it thru before ranting on it'

LadyAce says, 'I think it'd be nice to have spr increase hunt range, actually'

Soze looks up into the sky and ponders.

Gereint says, 'er'

LadyAce says, 'or increase it more than it does'

Soze says, 'hm'

Gereint says, 'hehe'

LadyAce knows nothing of formulae, and that is intentional.

Soze chuckles politely.

LadyAce says, 'I can't cheat with info I don't know :)'

Gereint nods his agreement with LadyAce.

Soze made himself less spammy.

Kae only knows that (coffee+lack of sleep)xfeedback=Kae's work efficiency level.

LadyAce says, 'more fun to try stuff, like I'm always telling people. :P'

Soze nods solemnly.

Gereint says, 'well'

Gereint says, 'make spirit depenandent on para backstabs and I bet you'll see alot of spi fighters around'

Gereint says, 'plus no more con dex perc snipers =P'

Gereint cackles gleefully to himself for no apparent reason.

Soze laughs with amusement.

Gereint says, 'hey wow that was a good diea'

Marcel says, 'waiiiiit for it -- next week!'

Soze says, 'but alot of augmentor snipers?'

Soze bonks Gereint on the head!

Gereint says, 'ok ok ok!'

Gereint says, 'dusk cloners'

Gereint spits on the ground.

Gereint says, 'he didnt backstab tho'

Kyna says, 'or they'd boost their first aid stats to surgery stats ...'

Ea! looks up into the sky and ponders.

Ea! says, 'Maybe I should make offline healing rate based on spirit.'

Soze says, 'hoo!'

Soze says, 'good idea'

Kyna says, 'ooh ...'

Gereint says, 'I knew I was good for something'

Marcel says, 'do like my surgeon and actually *spam* gear to aid or surgeon?'

Gereint says, 'I just inspired Ra!'

Gereint says, 'er Ea!'

Gereint bounces around.

LadyAce says to Ea!, 'I don't know if that'd make sense'

LadyAce says to Ea!, 'unless you rent in a field'

Soze says, 'dreams are spiritural!'

Soze nods to himself - he must be getting senile.

Gereint snickers softly.

Soze ignores everything, lost in his own little world.

Marcel's alt singlehandedly keeps spam gear alive.

Gereint nods his agreement with Soze.

Ea! says to LadyAce, 'When you're asleep, you heal based on how intune you are with the world. How little the birds and wolves out the window bother your sleep.'

Ea! ducks to the ground.

Soze says, 'healing through spiritual dreams'

Gereint says, 'hehe'

Kyna says to Marcel, 'spam takes too long. Then again, maybe it doesn't compared to a hungry mage meditating ...'

Kae says, 'oo, dreams!'

Kae bats her eyelashes at Ea!.

LadyAce chuckles politely.

Marcel says to Kyna, 'I got him set up to max five ticks to switch gear, though'

Soze cackles gleefully at Ea! - whatever he's going to do to him, glad it's not you!

Gereint says, 'knockout dreams?'

Ea! says, 'Hm. Maybe I should recode dream sending to make it an offensive spell.'

Marcel says to Kyna, 'if a group can't wait on their surgeon for 5 ticks, they can find someone else'

Gereint laughs with amusement.

LadyAce giggles at Ea!.

Soze says, 'that'd be neat'

Gereint says, 'yea but'

Gereint says, 'no one sleeps during pk =P hehehehe'

Gereint says, 'unless they lullaby...'

Gereint looks up into the sky and ponders.

Kyna says, 'my surgeon soloes ... now I can make her better at it.'

LadyAce says to Ea!, 'dreams are good. give evil thoughts some lovin'

Kyna grins evilly.

Soze says, 'make them have bad dreams and stuff'

LadyAce says, 'dream sending to someone affected by evil thoughts, that might be a good one'

Kae wakes Soze.

LadyAce chuckles politely.

Ea! says to LadyAce, 'Ooh, good one.'

Kyna says, 'or summon butterflies on someone before they rent out ...'

Kyna says, 'to boost their off line regen.'

Soze just got a few ideas.

Soze cheers for himself since no one else has.

Kyna says, 'maybe summon butterflies could be a +10 spirit spell for creates ... and not align based.'

Lorenzo has been out of ideas for months.

LadyAce giggles at Lorenzo.

LadyAce says to Lorenzo, 'not true'

Marcel says to Lorenzo, 'you need to be a flea, then'

Sandra says, 'we should send him back for a newer model then'

Marcel nudges a 'Ferocious Flea' team button over a few inches.

Soze says, 'so, will this Q&A be known as the Q&A that asked itself to sleep?'

Marcel says, 'yea!'

Soze says, 'how about magetools that requires high spirit for usage'

Soze says, 'monoliths or something'

Soze says, 'rechargable wands with a high spirit requirement'

Soze rants on about spirit and mages.

LadyAce says, 'staves and wands and other 'mana storage' items are on the list for someday'

LadyAce says, 'we just need us some more staff to put all these good ideas into practice'

Gereint looks up into the sky and ponders.

Soze nods solemnly.

Lorenzo dreamily imagines a big bucket o' brainwaves.

Soze laughs at Lorenzo.

Soze says, 'I was just kinda thinking, erm, summoning a special charmie that was eg, twice/thrice as strong/good as a greater summon, requiering 10 charges off a "wand" each charge costing eg, 100 mana'

Gereint says to Soze, 'I think your wierd'

Marcel says to Gereint, 'I know he is.'

Soze says, '-or- a spell, of course these "wands" would be renty etc'

Soze thanks Gereint heartily.

LadyAce says, 'any other topics of question or discussion?'

LadyAce says, 'otherwise I'll go back to cooking and breaking the tournament in klein :)'

LadyAce giggles.

Evaporating Changes

Kyna says, 'one of the concerns I raised with Kae yesterday was that sometimes we are told changes are coming soon, and they evaporate. Could you reassure me that won't happen with changes to ellies.'

Kae says, 'I can personally assure you that it's a campaign issue of mine'

Kae ducks to the ground.

Ea! says, 'It's already coded.'

Ea! says, 'I expect it to be in next week, unless there are complaints by imms.'

Kae says, 'oh yeah'

LadyAce says, 'usually changes don't just evaporate'

Kyna thanks Ea! heartily.

LadyAce says, 'if you're wondering about the status of them, ask us about them'

Kyna says, 'what's happening with the forge stuff that got changed two years ago cos changes were coming soon.'

LadyAce says, 'forge stuff?'

LadyAce says, 'you mean with the availability of metals to forge and such?'

Kyna says, 'the metal that the smith in norway sells got massively hiked in price, because changes were coming soon.'

Kyna says, 'or so we were told at a Q&A when we asked why the change.'

LadyAce says, 'we're checking the collective memory banks on that one'

Kyna says, 'it was a while ago. my surgeon was still in USL, so was Huggy.'

Kyna says, 'think Sandra was working on it.'

Ea! says, 'Rufus was working on it.'

Kyna says, 'may have been a part of skill trees that was nearly here, but got put aside.'

Ea! says, 'I don't remember why we held off on it.'

LadyAce says to Kyna, 'I think it's fair to say we've lost track of that particular change. But I think Ea will probably check into it and see what he can find out?'

LadyAce raises her eyebrow at Ea!.

Ea! nods solemnly.

Kyna says, 'just wondering when the change was coming, cos it did sound cool at the time.'

Kyna says, 'be able to forge better weapons, or something.'

LadyAce says, 'any other weird things that might've fallen thru the cracks?'

Kyna says, 'I think it was about then that I first heard mention of etching on blades, so it may have been a part of skill trees that was almost here.'

LadyAce says, 'it's like a trip down memory lane....'

Kae says to Kyna, 'I seem to recall it was tree related too'

LadyAce says, 'yea, well, we all know what happened with that one :)'

Kyna says, 'it's just that the change never came, and the ores didn't get changed back.'

LadyAce says, 'for a price change, if we didn't put in other code we expected to then it should be easy to back out'

Kae says, 'I *think* forging stuff for easy cash was also an issue'

LadyAce says, 'for some kinds of changes, we won't want to back out because we don't want to backtrack/redo later'

Kae says, 'you know, buy pig iron, forge sword, sell sword, first aid.'

Kyna says, 'that wasn't raised at the Q&A from the imm side as a problem. It was why players got upset, it's what funded the USL hall at the time.'

Kae says, 'that I wouldn't know about, I don't even think I was an imm back then'

LadyAce says, 'well, I'd say that the 'free money' angle was also considered a problem, if we didn't mention it then we should have.'

LadyAce says, 'q & a logs only go back to january 2000 so I can't say for sure what we said or didn't say at the time'

Kyna nods solemnly.

Kae's FAIRLY sure it was before she immorted, namely way before that.

Charmies & Xp Split

Kyna says, 'have you considered changing the xp split with charmies? so they take xp as if they were half their level.'

Kyna says, 'considering that we've already spent mana to create them, they're costing us twice.'

Soze says, 'how about fixing the current xp bug with charmies first?'

Soze ducks to the ground.

LadyAce says, 'I don't think I've heard that come up in discussion, but you should put that in on idea to let us know it's on player minds'

LadyAce says to Soze, 'yea yeah, they know :)'

Kyna says, 'and a charmie isn't as valuable as a player with an independent mind of the same level as the charmie.'

Soze giggles at LadyAce.

Soze says to LadyAce, 'I just find it erm, too easy that if a charmie gets the killing blow, I get the xp of the charmies level as if it soloed it and I were it'

Soze says, 'or something'

Marcel says, 'that is a bug'

Lorenzo says, 'seems fair that we spend capital at first, then continue to spend as they continue to benefit us. I couldn't do what I do nearly as quickly, if at all, without out my doppelganger.'

Marcel says, 'just as it is when Darkness beats up casablanca with a full charmie set and loses no xp off it'

Ea! says, 'It's being worked on.'

Kyna says, 'if my charmies don't fight (ie serve as porters), I get all the xp. But if they fight they don't tend to get killing blows.'

Soze nods his agreement with Marcel.

Marcel doesn't fight at all, often, that way they do.

An aura of heavenly light appears above Marcel's head.

Soze says, 'and me killing entire klein with a full group and getting 48K per kill'

Kyna says, 'means I can ditch all if I"m not planning on coming back to the mob, cos they're cheap.'

Kyna says, 'but since I'm going to be using the new ellies soon, they're bigger.'

Marcel says, 'groupboatgroupboatgroupboat'

Marcel nods to himself - he must be getting senile.

Soze says, 'yea, did you see my bugreport on those btw?'

Tritoch says, 'the stupid captains in indus steal group boats they find, i've seen em have like 4 greoup boats on one captain'

Kae says to Tritoch, 'that has been fixed, I believe.'

Ea! says, 'They're buggy as hell. Nonmech-vehicles are a little less buggy, I think....'

Kyna says, 'if homunculi are porters, could they have permafly and be able to follow through tunnel rooms?'

Soze says to Ea!, 'if you move over land with them, people can rest in it, and you just drag them along in a boat'

Kae says to Ea!, 'oh, uh, ready when you are, btw'

Soze blinks.

Kae looks mildly sleepy.

Ea! nods solemnly.

Kae says to Lorenzo, 'I'm a hopeless night stalker'

Lorenzo chuckles politely.

Kae lurks around Lorenzo ominously - glad she's not after you!

Lorenzo snickers softly.

Kyna says, 'I had insomnia last night. Got about 1 hour very unrestful sleep.'

Lorenzo says to Kae, 'me too... hopeless and sleepless'

Haley wrinkles her nose at Kyna.

Ea! says, 'Okay, time for the next thing....'

Ea! waves happily.

Kae giggles.

Kyna says, 'which explains, but does not excuse, my cranky behaviour today. I apologise if I've been too bad tempered.'

Kae gives Kyna a great big smooch!

Lorenzo smiles at Kyna.

LadyAce waves happily.

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