Posted by Isamu-Dyson on 06/01
lets start with the exp you lose when ya die. lose over 1/2 your
exp when ya get killed?? ive always hated that about this mud.
this character is very incapable of killing anything 10 levels or
more below it
i will never level out of my 3.6 million exp to level hole alone.
and now you have rigged the mud so that we are forced to group.
another sometimes very unfun experiance VIA legendmud!
some of you KNOW what im talking about if you have ever gone on a
SL run :P
-Isamu
From: Rufus
Friday, May 30, 08:24AM
If you can't kill a mob 10 levels lower than your level, then perhaps
the design of that character was to group?
Characters were never supposed to tromp through mobs of their own level
like they were candy. A con as a 'perfect match' meant you had a 50/50
chance of surviving. Now if you wish to increase your chances at that
set of odds, you fight lower level mobs than your own level.
We aren't forcing anyone to group, we're just limiting mobs that were
intended as 'group mobs' not being tackled by characters who solely
function as an entire group.
I honestly never remember a red S, a cape and a set of tights being
standard newbie issue gear. The sad fact is, everyone has grown used
to qualifying for nearly every skill, being able to act, for example,
like a full 3rd circle cause mage, sniper, 100dex fighter, enough
stats for the most powerful strength skills and the hp capacity of
a true tank. That's (let me count here, it's early in the morning)
5 professions?!?!? Name someone you know who holds a degree in
molecular biology, is an expert at martial arts, is qualified to prove
the kennedy assassination single bullet theory by example, is an
olympic class weight lifter and has the endurance of a small sized
heard of elephants?
There aren't many anywhere in the real world, and as much as this is
a diversion, some semblance of believability must be maintained in the
sum of the fantasy along with the fact that designing for such is
a severe slam to the side of game balance.
There ARE still mobs that people can solo, and if you wish to be a
'jack of all trades' with decent fighting abilities, decent healing
abilities, a nice set of hps and some other skills, you can, but
you won't be the master swordsman, the top of the line mage, the
biggest tank, etc etc etc... where these people lose out (those
who focus on a skill set or go in a particular direction) is that
they can't adapt to all situations.
Speaking from personal experience, I have characters who have endured
the 'no sanc/no wells' change, hell I even have morts who endured the
original weapon combat system change (yes, we used to only get 1
attack with ANY weapon, no multi-attacks based on stats) that still
solo and can average about 2-3 million a night on a good day (that's
about 5-6 hours of playing). Frankly, I still see that as rediculous,
but we're working on that. (and for those who are asking, I'm not
referring to Mandolin who has a bazzillion hps and 100dex and high
perc, I'm referring to my much less 'built' characters).
No, I don't think, btw, that a lot of this is whining, I understand
the fact that players have enjoyed a satisfaction level of playing.
But frankly, much of the mud's unheard playerbase often leaves over
boredem because things become 'too easy.' I know this all to well
because many of those people I happen to have some relationship with
OFF the mud. We aren't killing solo'ing, we aren't forcing grouping,
if nothing else, we're making grouping worth the effort to do so.
And yes, I know that once you've tasted caviar, it's hard to recognize
a good square meal. Then again, I don't honestly think there will be
as drastic a change as many of you believe. This happened with the
combat changes, this happened when clanning first when in, this
happened when spells first went in... It's not as bad as it seems.
One final note... we are backing up pfiles and we're running a
'test period' to hopefully work out the bugs and make everything
work properly and balanced so no one 'class' of characters is any
weaker or stronger than another.
I guarantee, put a little thought into it, and most will still be
able to solo a decent character to 50 in a reasonable amount of
time.
-Ruf
From: Isamu-Dyson
Friday, May 30, 08:48AM
Let me tell you something!
a) you never said anything about exp loss, which was the point of this
post in the first place.
b) with the way you have changed the mud, yes you have left some of us
(this character in particular) with no choise but to group for exp.
mabe and one point long ago i would have been able to kill mobs of my leve
if i used Dex eq, but now thats impossable do to all the mob upgreads and
the down grading of dex as a fighting stat.
The removal of sanc and the wells made it a fact, that surgeons where need
and being a 100 con surgeon, with enough Spirit to meditate, i would have
thought this character ideal for the coming changes. it still might be, bu
have NEVER been of the habit of building the super characters seen on this
mud in the last few years, i would much rather use brains over brawn, and
always enjoyed a certain tactial advantage over most of my hack and slash
peers.
however, in recent months this has been nullified by the changes within th
muds structure, for example: changing "snipe" to where its basicaly impos-
able to get one. (i will admit that seeing Leech kill 4 hertetics in a row
was a bit much)
Gails heart was in the right place, but she faild to make the skill worth
while.
IMHO. if making bash str based, and warcry and headbut con based, what do
dex fighters get? flee? maybe need to rethink about prec/dex alittle cuz
"sniper" is useless....and the snipers i know in RL are the most leathal
killing machines ever devised! i should know, i was one for 4 years.
-Isamu
From: Rufus
Friday, May 30, 12:34PM
It has been mentioned more than once (on these exact boards even!) that
the penalty for death has been in consideration.
Weakening dex? yes, strengthening other fighting stats? yes, you neglect
to mention that.
What do dex fighters get? 100 dex, an additional -35 to AC, doesn't
matter now, but will when the changes go in. Kick? At most as far as
straight damage, warcry does at most like about 10hps, kick upwards of
around 30 or so, and doesn't allow a chance of 'failing' like headbutt
or bash do where you take extra damage if you miss. Tumble? Tumble is
still dex based and will still have a chance of going off when you are
headbutted or bashed. Dodge? sure it's getting downgraded, but that
extra bonus to AC applied will help.
Strength and con which have virtually zilch redeeming value in the combat
venue currently get a boost, dex, although it loses 2 (count them! two!)
skills, it still has a hoard of others.
The rationale? Str fighters should beat the crap out of you, do a lot
of damage to you before you hit them alot. Con fighters? well they
have a ton of hps, but don't hit so well and get hit a lot, so over
the course of time where their hps get whittled to shreds, they can
beat someone down. Dex? Dex will be a lot better at not taking damage.
Sure they don't have the hps, sure they don't do the damage, but
they don't take as much either.
And if you remember when sniper was changed it was billed as (and still
is, matter of fact!) a 'temporary' fix, a fix to something that people
were complaining about. And how 'useless it is' when snipers with a
decent (single handed, mind you) gun can do 40-50 hps (no damcap on
gun damage) a round? That's PER ROUND, twice as often as KICK! And
with a 10% chance (no, the actual chance did not change!) of making
the victim totally stunned for 1 to 2 ticks.
And don't knock 'flee'. How many people do you know use the hit-and-run
tactic? Ever tried it with 20 dex?
The thing is here, you WILL have to use brains. Franlky, seeing as you
are 100 con, you'll have access to headbutt (which by your stat set up
or so it sounds, you wouldn't have currently without spamming), you
are able to heal not only yourself but others, and probably carry
a decent amount of hps and gun that'll do some damage.
It honestly sounds like you'll get BETTER for these changes.
As I said, the exp scale is being looked at. Frankly if it were close
to RL if you died, you'd be dead, kaput, that's it. We're not that
close to reality, that's for sure.
-Ruf
From: Isamu-Dyson
Friday, May 30, 12:53PM
this particular character was orginaly meant as a dex/sniper/medic, but mu
but i must have fummbled the ball as far as making the stat selections.
only a 17 natural con, when i was begiving to level this character i notic
that i was only getting 2 or 3 hp a level, over tho i was at my limit on
Con eq. I leveled to 15 and desided this character wasnt worth finishing
with a total of 77 hitpoints at level 15, i knew he wouldnt last a minate
against anything his level.
From: Isamu-Dyson
Friday, May 30, 01:02PM
Hmmm.. Sorry, had a crash. Anyways, this character was basicaly rented for
6 months befor, the removal of the sancs and wells, the Mud cried for surg
surgeons and i reponded, this character did have a high mind and spr, so
was perfectly suited for this type of work.
With that said, i would like to disagree with you Rufus on some points.
the first being that i didnt mention the strengthening of other types of
characters, is there really a need? After all we all know that Con Fighter
are going to rule! Its been said a 1000 times, so i didnt feel it was
nessiary to mention it.
The reson i mention dex fighters in particular is because, in case you
haven't noticed, all the characters i play seem to be Dex/perc snipers.
I hate to tell you, but dodge, tumble and flee DO NOT make up for the loss
of headbut, warcry, and bash.
Not to mention the loss of hit points ,do to hp being con based, being
very dishardening, the problems that i see with this is...while MOBS are
getting stronger, and Dex/Prec fighters are getting weaker they are being
totaly rendered uncompetative, or even out-classed.
So now we wait to see whos right. In either case it means that the 2000+
Hours that i have on My main character where basicaly spent creating a
character that i cant even solo my favorite mobs with. Nothing bums me
out more then that!
Isamu
From: Lethargio
Saturday, May 31, 02:53PM
isamu, instead of whining about your problems before the
changes goes in, why not whine after, yes?
From: Gabriella
Sunday, June 01, 05:03AM
You know, I sit and read these posts and wonder why everyone is SO
upset with the upcoming changes. I don't believe they're going
to be THAT big a problem once everything gets worked out and we're
through testing it. Isamu says that dex/perc fighters will suck
without bash, headbutt and warcry. Um, why? I'm a dex/per fighter
and surgeon(without spamming) with a whopping 30 con/str. Do I
have headbutt? Yep, but never use it because I usually land on
my face. Do I have warcry? Bash? Nope. No need for either. With
a simple kick/flee, or shoot/flee, I can usually kill mobs
which do alot of damage, with not too much trouble. Me and my
219hp. That's 219hp at level 50, not level 20. Dodge, tumble and kick
are a dex fighter's best friends. And probably will be after the
3rd.
I have no doubt that there will be problems that will need to be
tweeked in the coming weeks, but this WILL be a testing period,
as every immort that's posted/talked about it has said.
I just can't understand why people are getting so upset about
something that they haven't even tried yet. Why not wait until
next week after its in, and after you've had a chance to see what
its really like, to put in your ideas/requests/complaints?
Just my $.02.
Gabriella
From: Stella
Sunday, June 01, 07:41PM
Isamu, you make it sound like it is a very bad thing that you
have to group with others. Well, sometimes it takes several people
to accomplish something. It seems quite logical to me. Besides,
when grouped, you often learn new people to know, which is
also fun :)
Of course there will be people who don't get along, but
then just don't group with those you don't like.
Stella
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