June 12th, 2003

Changes for Surgery?

Hawkye says, 'I hear the requirement for surgery are going up?'

Hawkye glances around the room.

Rhone peers around intently.

LadyAce is thinking someone else can take that, not her.

LadyAce says, 'Hawkye did :)'

Chocorua says, 'i honestly don't know'

Kaige says, 'I can't recall off the top of my head. there's nothing actively being discussed about it.. but if they do, we'll give you some advance warning'

Hawkye says, 'Rockin'.'

Zane says, 'Oh, yes. Screw surgeons even more. That's SURE to make people want to play them.'

Hawkye nods his agreement with Zane.

Rhone pouts at Zane.

Rhone peers at herself myopically.

Zane shrugs helplessly.

LadyAce says, 'hey, easy :P Nothing's been decided, she said'

Zane says, 'Let's face it. There's a shortage, and numbers are the root cause.'

Domingo says, 'Mine has not seemingly been affected much... course I have always liked to fly'

Domingo winks suggestively.

Hawkye nods his agreement with Zane.

LadyAce says, 'Sandra's currently working on a nice boost up for surgeons actually'

Tim says, 'What exactly?'

Hawkye says, 'Rockin'.'

Kaige says, 'implementing the dress wounds skill'

Hawkye says, 'Also, I'm sure we'd like to see Dress Wounds come into full effect.'

Tim says, 'basically a tech poultice?'

Hawkye nods his agreement with Kaige.

LadyAce says, 'We talked about it a bit a few weeks back, if you want to look. It's like tech poultices, yea'

Huginn says, 'more or less'

Kaige says, 'there's a bit of discussion about it in the last few logs'

Kaige nods her agreement with Tim.

Domingo peers around intently.

Kaige says, 'but not using herbs.. but drugs'

Hawkye says, 'Right.'

Tim says, 'What precisely are the changes planned for surgeons aside from implementing dress wounds, good or bad?'

Tim says, 'the way you said it made it seem like it wasn't Dress Wounds alone that would be changed'

LadyAce says, 'none that I know of...that's why Kaige said that there's not anything else being discussed'

Tim nods solemnly.

Zane says, 'I've always wondered if the medicine on the 'evil' doctor in Pittsburgh was good for anything...'

Kaige says, 'and actually i think Sandra's doing the research on the drugs and Huginn's doing the actual code slaving'

Tim says, 'glee, I hope there's morphine to use'

Hawkye nods his agreement with Tim.

LadyAce says, 'Kaige said "nothing actively being discussed" and that we'd let you know if anything did go into the pipeline -- but that's the standard line for everything in the game ... everything's up for changing at some time or another'

Tim says, 'should be entertaining having players doped up on opiates in game'

LadyAce says, 'so don't take that as a hint or a rumor source or anything'

LadyAce nods her agreement with Kaige.

LadyAce says to Kaige, 'I just meant that it was a thingy that she'd brought up in a session'

Kaige says to Tim, 'already can'

Kaige points to the opium dealer.

Hawkye chuckles politely.

Why is Perc Required to Fight?

Rhone says, 'figures I would be in a good mood tonight..but I am still kinda disgruntled, and need another explaination..'

Rhone says, 'this new now old skill revision... WHY again was perc a basic requirement to fight??'

Rhone growls.

Kaige says, 'so you could see what you were trying to hit?'

Chocorua says, 'so you can see what you are hitting or slicing?'

Domingo chortles with amusement.

Kaige says, 'and so you couldn't just dump one stat in favor of the others, but have to make meaningful choices'

Zane snorts derisively.

Chocorua says, 'or so you can see how someone moves when they swing so you can whack em'

LadyAce says, 'so part realism, part balance'

Kaige says, 'ok.. so you have to make choices?'

Rhone says, 'ok, not that I pk much..but if you are blinded in any way...you lose your fightskills as well??'

Huginn shakes his head in disagreement.

Domingo says, 'I have a blindguy that used to attack different mobs from his group'

Tim blinks.

Domingo says, 'Should, wouldnt you think?'

LadyAce says, 'RP'ing blind isn't quite the same as having no perc'

Kaige says, 'only if it affected perc... which it doesn't.'

Rhone says, 'or when your blinded in Klein...and WHY isnt it then??'

Domingo says, 'I know... I am just having my ADHD moments now'

LadyAce says, 'having no perc means you don't have any sense of what's going on around you'

Kaige says, 'perc isn't just seeing.. it's all your senses...'

Kaige nods her agreement with LadyAce.

Rhone says, 'it should..if I need perc to kick...doesnt it make sence if I am blind..I cant do anything??'

Rhone looks up into the sky and ponders.

LadyAce says, 'you can still swing your arms and legs when blind...but if you have no sense of others or yourself, you couldn't be much of a fighter'

Rhone says, 'if I am totally blind..I can still kick'

LadyAce says, 'right, which makes sense'

Rhone says, 'as the same when blinded in PK'

Zane says, 'Somewhere along the line, someone in a position to do something about it decided that it was not acceptable for characters to be able to do more than one thing well. I say that's absolute madness, and I protest.'

Rhone sticks her tongue out at Domingo. =P

Chocorua says, 'its a matter of knowing what is going on around you .. no matter the sense .. some people just rely heavily on their eyes'

Domingo winks suggestively at Rhone.

Dow says, 'you can perceive with touch, and sound etc, that'

Domingo nods his agreement with Chocorua.

Dow says, 'is their point I think'

LadyAce says to Zane, 'our general idea is that you shouldn't be able to do everything well. You should be able to choose between being a specialist and being a generalist, though.'

Zane says, 'I don't think a sniper should have to make the choice between fighting well in close or shooting well.'

LadyAce says to Zane, 'and you shouldn't be able to get around that balance between specialist and generalist by making one stat go negative'

Dow whispers quietly to Zane.

Dow snickers softly.

Rhone says, 'yeah, I know...but I WAS a specialist....and now I am forced to be a generalist'

Rhone giggles.

Zane says, 'I also don't think a surgeon should have to make the choice between fighting well and being skilled at operating.'

LadyAce says, 'fighting well close and shooting well don't seem like things people have to choose between'

Zane says, 'Not that anyone cares what I think.'

Rhone says to Zane, 'I do'

LadyAce says, 'being an ace of healing and an ace of damaging people doesn't leave a lot of room for people who want to be specialist healers or damage-doers'

LadyAce says, 'if it's no better to be a pure surgeon than it is to be a fighter-surgeon, it's not much of a choice'

Dow nods solemnly.

LadyAce says, 'so we try to create a system of trade-offs, where there's a continuum of choices'

Rhone says, 'so there is no more pure anything'

LadyAce says, 'There's a whole lot better pure stuff than there used to be'

LadyAce says, 'pure fighters make sense now, for example'

Rhone says, 'I have been pure chars for 8 years.. now a good fightroll is useless'

Rhone chuckles politely.

Chocorua says, 'no, there shouldn't ever be someone who can sacrifice one stat so much they gain advantage in two specialties'

Dow says, 'I have to say the new fight skills have made me atleast try to be a pure fighter.'

LadyAce nods her agreement with Chocorua.

Dow smiles happily.

Zane says, 'A concerted effort has been made to force players to group together to get anything done. You can't fight well and heal yourself, for example. You can't shoot well and have enough hp to survive fighting in close with someone big.'

Rhone says, 'I dunno, my stats were totally ruined JUST so I could have perception, but if I am blind I lose no perception'

Rhone giggles.

Zane says, 'Some people don't want to 'play well with others'.'

Domingo says, 'Could you break that down a little more? What do you mean two specialties?'

Rhone nods her agreement with Zane.

Kaige says, 'then in a multiplayer game, they won't play as well as other who are willing and able to.'

Chocorua says, 'being antisocial means you get to reap the rewards of being antisocial .. ie .. small mobs and little loot'

Kaige says, 'sorry, but some areas and mobs are just set up to be experienced with a group.'

LadyAce says, 'I think standalone chars can do reasonably well for themselves, but they won't ever be equivalent to multiple people working together as specialists.'

Zane says, 'The only class that can stand alone is a 3c create mage. It's always been that way, and if the real concern was balance then, instead of nerfing snipers and surgeons, the mages would've taken that hit.'

Chocorua says, 'mages have takn hits'

Rhone says, 'but still, to ruin a good hitter with great stats and to make her useless was CRUEL'

Tim says, 'hey, hey, us 3c creates can't do everything'

Rhone pouts.

LadyAce says, 'I think druids and surgeons both can do reasonably well to heal themselves and fight.'

Dow nods solemnly.

Domingo says, 'the timer on greater summoning was something'

Chocorua says, 'and they have stood here complaining about it too'

Dow says, 'the create timer changed my create'

Dow nods to himself.

LadyAce says, 'mages had to lose something, they were king forever :P'

Huginn says, 'it'll change more when effects save over rent too'

Kaige nods her agreement with Huginn.

Domingo raises an eyebrow inquiringly.

Kaige says, 'in all sorts of weird ways'

LadyAce says, 'yeah, that's one whose results will ripple through over time'

LadyAce says, 'a shock at first, big splash in the pond...then ripples outward that get smaller over time'

Dow says, 'will the saving over rent stuff also include some kind of regenning while rented?'

Domingo says, 'Which is shock, and which is ripple?'

LadyAce says, 'bad affs will tick off while rented and hp too, last I heard.'

An aura of heavenly light appears above Domingo's head.

Kaige says, 'It also has provisions for the nasties with it like bleeding and poison while out too'

Chocorua says, 'its been talked about'

LadyAce says, 'but it's not all worked out yet, I think'

Zane says, 'I take issue with the rent on the katar too. That's just ridiculous. It doesn't have +hit or +dam, and it rents for 2k more than the best str weapons, the two of which represent both types of bonuses. A dex hitter will always be infer'

Zane says, '...always be inferior to a str hitter. Especially when backstabs only work under specific circumstances.'

Domingo raises an eyebrow inquiringly.

Chocorua says to Zane, 'thast why you have other options'

Domingo says, 'Depends on what you consider the best str weapon'

LadyAce says, 'lemme make sure we've covered Rhone's question in this, she had the floor'

Zane says, 'Not enough options, I'd say.'

Zane says, 'I'll stand down for now. LadyAce is right.'

LadyAce says, 'there were a lot of popular weapons before the katar.'

Domingo nods his agreement with LadyAce.

LadyAce says, 'I don't mind putting you in queue, this is your forum -- there just has to be a queue for everyone's needs to be met'

LadyAce says to Zane, 'I definitely appreciate your energy and inquisitiveness :)'

Mobs Hit When Not in the Room?

Dow says, 'what is up with all these mobs hitting me when I am not in the room with them'

LadyAce says, 'they're buggy fools!'

Dow says, 'I was killed by Guido the other day and he wasn't even in the room with me'

LadyAce says, 'report them and we will swat them with a great big swatter'

Kaige says, 'specific examples of those are best dealt with on the bug channel when it happens'

LadyAce says, 'I fixed a whole buncha those in Klein the other day, youch there were some ugly ones :P'

Dow says, 'and the narlwhal and lots of casablanca mobs'

Chocorua says, 'it CAN be by design but generally it needs to be reported so we can fix it'

Dow says, 'I bugged them'

LadyAce says, 'bug bug bug. each one of those bad mobs could earn *you* a token :)'

Kaige nods her agreement with Chocorua.

LadyAce says, 'yea, they should explain that though'

LadyAce says, 'so do watch for that in the act, explaining how they managed such a feat'

Kaige says, 'yeah.. ones like the bane and the leenan do'

Dow says, 'I felt wierd dying from elbow damage when we werent in the same room'

Dow pouts.

Zane nods his agreement with Dow.

Zane says, 'Bug.'

London Expansion?

Zane says, 'Please don't beat me... but... how's the London expansion coming along?'

Chocorua says, 'same as last time that as asked i think'

LadyAce says, 'You'll see reports in the LT and on welcome when an update has been posted to the development area of the server'

LadyAce says, 'if you don't see a report, it means that any work done has happened offline and hasn't been uploaded.'

Dow says, 'is there going to be a ripper?'

Zane says, 'I just make it a point to ask at every opportunity.'

LadyAce says, 'and if that's the case, we don't always know about it'

Dow licks his lips and smiles.

Chocorua says, 'its been admittedly slow but it will be worth it i think from what i have seen'

Kaige says to Dow, 'yes'

Kaige says, 'but it may not be how you expect'

Dow throws his head back and cackles gleefully!

Dow smiles at Kaige.

Hawkye chuckles politely.

Zane says, 'We need Jack, and we need Sweeny Todd.'

Zane nods solemnly.

Dow says, 'it never is'

Dow chuckles politely.

LadyAce says, 'well, you can ask, but it doesn't really help it get done exactly :/'

Zane says, 'Oh, I know, but it's one way of letting you guys, who are in a position to know things that I may never know, that I am very interested.'

Zane says, 'Er, know. Letting you guys know.'

LadyAce says, 'true, absolutely true.'

Kaige says to Zane, 'best thing to do is drop a note to the builder responsible too... they're much more in the know than we are too'

Gunman Specialist is Impossible

Hawkye says, 'You have told us the benefits of being a specialist, but being a gun specialist is nearly impossible.'

LadyAce says, 'our traditional response to that is that we don't consider it a specialty'

Hawkye says, 'Aw, man, I know gunmen in real life (like myself) who take that personally.'

LadyAce says, 'I totally recognize that it looks that way, and people want it to be.'

LadyAce says, 'Oh, I can think of many professions we shaft :P'

Dow says to LadyAce, 'I bet you could give ari fleischer a run for his money'

Dow giggles.

Dow smiles at LadyAce.

Chocorua says, 'i personally think that to make shooting a specialty all its own for fighting would make it way overpowering'

LadyAce says to Dow, 'ouch :('

Kaige says, 'but a gunman in real life can use only his gun... on Legend.. you get pulled into melee combat and have to use a weapon regardless'

Dow says to LadyAce, 'just kidding'

Hawkye says, 'exactly, Kaige.'

Hawkye says, 'In real life, how're you gonna juggle a rifle and a sword?'

LadyAce says, 'it's a sticky problem....when we put in standalone gunfighting previously, it was so powerful and so widely criticized, we had to pull it'

Kaige says, 'which is why we don't consider it a specialty... when we have three different ones for melee combat on its own'

LadyAce says, 'we were pounded so hard, we yanked it rather than fix it ... it even got the expie for best bug.'

LadyAce says, 'talk about being burned :P'

Hawkye sighs loudly.

Kaige says to Hawkye, 'I wanted only two hands and no inventory floating about you for years... but definitely takes a HUGE hit in the playability and fun factor sides'

Zane says, 'The iconic image of gunfighter-as-warrior, however, is so awfully attractive, made so by decades of media aggrandizement...'

Dow says, 'remember when that hol rifle went in, we were killing PD captains by shooting them to death'

Dow snickers softly.

LadyAce says, 'Oh, I can understand the appeal :) but it's a prospect fraught with risks and trouble'

Zane says, 'Shoot/flee was always my favorite way to fight. You can't really do that anymore.'

Hawkye says, 'In other words, you don't wanna have to deal with it. I can understand that, programming alone is tough.'

Chocorua says, 'making shooting a 4th fightig discipline been talked about by some people but its nasty'

LadyAce says, 'it might work on a model like mages -- I'm just thinking out loud here -- where you still have melee ability, but more reduced, and shoot power every so often, instead'

Hawkye says, 'Then maybe don't make it a fighting skill all by itself...'

Dow says, 'you could always make snipers able to shoot over more than one room, that would be a plus'

Dow grins evilly.

Hawkye says, 'Maybe just give us some trick shots or something.'

Huginn says, 'actually we've talked about the more than one room thing'

LadyAce says, 'yea...room sizes, positional combat...to go with that...has also been tossed around'

Chocorua says, 'multiple room stuff is scary'

Dow says to Chocorua, 'to code ?'

Huginn shakes his head in disagreement.

Huginn says, 'to balance'

Zane says, 'Give snipers a single 'snipe' attempt, which does a great deal of damage, like a backstab, but also sets a trigger on the mob (like the 'too alert to backstab' thing) to prevent multiple uses in one fight.'

Chocorua says to Dow, 'to code and balance'

Dow nods solemnly.

Zane says, 'Then they get their 'regular' shots.'

Hawkye says, 'Just thinking aloud here...maybe a special like a multi-shot - fire more than once in a round at the cost of accuracy.'

Dow says, 'back to playing. I do want ya'll to know that I have been pretty impressed with the recent additons to the game.'

Dow smiles happily.

Dow waves happily.

Zane says, 'Little 'specials' for snipers would really make them more attractive. Enough to make players want to emphasize perception over another fighting stat, without 'gunfighting' having to be made into a whole other 'school' of combat.'

Hawkye says, 'Or different types of ammo, like armor piercing or scatter shot.'

LadyAce says, 'sprawl shots are kinda like a special....'

Kaige says, 'disarming's not too shabby either when it happens'

Zane says, 'They would be, if you had some control over them.'

LadyAce says, 'specialized ammo might start to get too recent, or be too powerful to implement realistically....'

LadyAce nods her agreement with Kaige.

Zane says, 'Sprawls only seem to happen when you DON'T want them to.'

Huginn nods his agreement with Kaige.

LadyAce says, 'ultimately, though, we're going to be held back by the extremely powerful effect that RL guns had on history'

Zane says, 'Archers get 'dips'. Throw the snipers a bone already.'

LadyAce says, 'to portray that realistically, gunfighters would have to squash absolutely everyone....and we can't do that.'

Hawkye says, 'Mmm, not really, LadyAce. Pittsburgh already has shotguns. That's scatter shot right there.'

AA-Aarington already asked the imms months ago to make only perc characters viable

Kaige has created a leg bone!

Kaige gnaws on a leg bone - what a Neanderthal.

AA-Aarington gets a wooden leg from a small bag.

AA-Aarington says, 'i already got on'

AA-Aarington pets a wooden leg lovingly.

AA-Aarington puts a wooden leg in a small bag.

LadyAce says, 'that's true, I guess I was thinking more like armor piercing :)'

AA-Aarington drools contentedly.

Hawkye says, 'Kevlar piercers and hollow points are too recent.'

Hawkye says, 'I'll give you that.'

AA-Aarington says, 'well I'm still amazed at the one shot dealie'

AA-Aarington says, 'gattling guns have been around over 100 years'

Hawkye says, 'Gatling guns are too big to carry around, though.'

Aurore gets a small black mug from a small bag.

Aurore pouts.

AA-Aarington says, 'in fact, you've got an UZI that only shoots once, if guns were incorporated as weapons that you hit with, you could shoot a realisitic amount of times'

AA-Aarington says, 'did they even have uzis before ww2?'

AA-Aarington says, 'didn't some israeli invent them way after?'

Zane says, 'There's a mob already on the mud with an uzi.'

Kaige says, 'the uzi was a player string... can't blame the builders for that one'

Aurore nods her agreement with Kaige.

Bug with Object Damage and AC?

AA-Aarington says, 'who wants to come hit me around :)'

AA-Aarington says, 'then repair my equipment'

AA-Aarington says, 'test a theory'

Hawkye looks up into the sky and ponders.

LadyAce says, 'He *is* seeing something odd, would be nice if a coder could take a look.'

AA-Aarington nods solemnly.

Hawkye says, 'Do you really want to tempt an imm into "hitting you around"?'

LadyAce says, 'otherwise a bug report can go in, but this is a good thing to see in action'

Hawkye chuckles politely.

AA-Aarington says, 'I have a theory, the added AC only stacks once you rent or save with it added'

AA-Aarington nods solemnly.

Kaige says, 'Added ac?'

Huginn says, '?'

AA-Aarington nods solemnly.

Kaige says, 'from what? to what?'

Kaige is completely boggled.

AA-Aarington says, 'not an item, just a general thingy'

LadyAce says, 'like, if you have a player repair the obj, is what you saw, right?'

AA-Aarington says, 'I can raise my AC by getting damaged than repairing myself'

AA-Aarington says, 'and whats more, I think that extra AC can be saved when I rent'

LadyAce says, 'like more than the item had before it was repaired, right?'

AA-Aarington says, 'or maybe me, I dont know the specifics I just want to test it'

LadyAce says, 'I mean more than when it was perfect.'

AA-Aarington says, 'yeah basically'

Aurore says, 'I want one of those'

AA-Aarington says, 'hmm...paper'

Aurore grins evilly.

AA-Aarington says, 'lets see how this turns out'

Zane says, 'There should be a skill for repairing guns...'

Kaige says, 'repair specifically or repair and trueform?'

AA-Aarington reads a small piece of paper from AA-Aarington.

AA-Aarington gives a small piece of paper from AA-Aarington to LadyAce.

LadyAce reads a small piece of paper from AA-Aarington.

AA-Aarington says, 'read that see if it explains it well enough'

AA-Aarington says, 'items of mine, not mind, thats a typo'

LadyAce gives a small piece of paper from AA-Aarington to Kaige.

Kaige reads a small piece of paper from AA-Aarington.

Kaige gives a small piece of paper from AA-Aarington to Huginn.

Huginn reads a small piece of paper from AA-Aarington.

Unfair Mob Stats vs Balance?

Zane says, 'A lot of mobs have too high a score in mind. I find it hard to believe that Big Jim can even READ, much less resist instant death from a mage with 90 mind... while suffering from the effects of an idiocy spell.'

AA-Aarington laughs.

AA-Aarington nods his agreement with Zane.

LadyAce says, 'Didn't we have a chat about this semi-recently?'

LadyAce chuckles politely.

AA-Aarington says, 'it's just funny'

Zane says, 'We did, but I haven't noticed any change, so I'm bringing it up again.'

LadyAce says, 'true that'

LadyAce says, 'did you make any mob-specific reports?'

Zane says, 'Several.'

Zane says, 'With an alt.'

Chocorua says, 'some mobs will have inflated stats to make them difficult enough to be worth their exp rather than us just nullifying your tactics'

LadyAce says, 'that should be enough to bring them to the builder's attention when they get a chance to look through their file'

LadyAce says, 'true :) if we decrease them to stunbait, you might well see them worth 20k :)'

LadyAce says, 'or less.'

AA-Aarington says, 'can you make the tarasque stun bait?'

AA-Aarington says, 'or the knight of geauvain?'

An aura of heavenly light appears above AA-Aarington's head.

LadyAce says, 'so not likely :)'

Zane says, 'It would be really nice if Chocorua would, like, not smack me down every time I open my mouth. Kind of rude. Thanks.'

Chocorua says to Zane, 'sorry if i tried to answer your questions'

Kaige says, 'I think you read more into that than was intended.. cause it's pretty much the same thing I was thinking...'

LadyAce says, 'hey, let's not be personal here. People have different styles of speaking, Choc happens to be a blunt kinda guy. He saves you time with his short answers, he's not trying to put you off.'

LadyAce says, 'me, I'll talk your ear off, just watch'

LadyAce winks suggestively at Zane.

LadyAce says, 'the whole point is that we can't fuss with mind too too much or we affect a whole lot of things'

LadyAce says, 'everything is really tightly bundled, mind is a vital piece of a lot of things'

LadyAce says, 'so though they might be dumb as a post, if we set their mind down we might make them so weak they hafta be set down to very little xp'

Axis looks up into the sky and ponders.

LadyAce says to Zane, 'does that make sense?'

Zane says, 'I don't like it, but I can't argue with your logic.'

Kaige says, 'we don't have a way to award different xp amounts based on how a mob was killed really, so.. it's one size fits all, so it has to be fairly equitable to all types'

LadyAce says to Zane, 'we can try to find creative solutions around it, finding other ways for them to be more realistic without stunbaitedness, but it's not a simple change. What kinds of things would you like be able to do to the mobs that the high '

Zane says, 'Well, instant death doesn't give any xp anyway...'

LadyAce says, 'eek. add "that the high mind is blocking" to the end of that'

Kaige says, 'oh.. so you'd prefer they be stupid enough to just hand over their gear for no risk for the asking?'

Kaige giggles.

Kaige says, 'which is also part of the reward for killing a mob'

LadyAce says, 'high mind is admittedly a crude tool ... we just don't have a sharper one.'

LadyAce says, 'I appreciate you thinking so well of us to expect sharp and clever tools everywhere, I wish it were the case!'

Zane says, 'It's hard for a mage to kill a big mob with his bare hands. Cause mages NEED skeletons, and good ones. So, cause mages need relatively big mobs which are susceptible to instant death. These don't have to be good xp mobs, or mobs with'

Zane says, '...useful gear. They just need to be high level.'

Chocorua says, 'you could use a smaller skeleton to give you the advantage'

Chocorua says, 'trade up to the big one'

LadyAce says, 'people start with littler ones and trade up, yea'

LadyAce says, 'some people have it down to like, a science.'

LadyAce chuckles politely.

LadyAce says, 'I think that's kinda cool, very scrappy'

Zane says, 'I'd like that answer a lot more if skeletons hit a little harder, or if animate dead weren't so unimaginably costly, mana-wise.'

Kaige says, 'well. it's based on the caster's mind.. so...'

Kaige says, 'the mage has the most control over that'

Huginn slowly fades into thin air.

Zane says, 'That's not quite satisfactory. It's still a problem with very high mind. I've experimented along these lines.'

Chocorua says, 'finding the right targets helps too'

Chocorua says, 'skeletons are soemthing i have used with Damia a bit .. its doable with patience'

Zane says, 'I'd also like to see the implementation of almost all spells which are currently not implemented, but I'm sure you have your reasons...'

Kaige says, 'like time, yeah..'

LadyAce says, 'some of them we don't intend to implement, but those may've been removed from player view by now, I forget for sure'

LadyAce says, 'like phase person'

Kaige says, 'and in some cases either changes in mind of how it shoudl work, or having it implemented would mean for balance, or in a couple others new ideas on how it should be done'

LadyAce nods her agreement with Kaige.

Kaige says, 'I still think that'd be fun'

Kaige sulks in the corner.

Zane says, 'Okay, yeah, phase person should probably never be implemented.'

LadyAce says, 'yea, our conception of things has changed over time.'

Kaige says, 'yeah.. ultimate pk weapon that it would be'

Illusions & Subjective Game Play

Zane says, 'I also think ephemera should be usable to trick mobs by mimicking acts to which they would normally respond.'

Zane says, 'Such as creating the illusion of an elite guard sitting on the Romanian throne in Vlad's presence.'

LadyAce says, 'well, we're pretty careful not to allow mobs to be tricked like that....'

LadyAce says, 'it's a pretty broad abuse, or can be.'

LadyAce says, 'the old 'unlocks the chains' bug was a doozy'

Huginn nods solemnly.

Zane says, 'Well, some mobs are already immune to illusions... such as doppels.'

LadyAce says, 'well, we really want people to actually do the quests we set out, not find out the magic codes to wave at the mob'

Kaige says, 'yeah, but there's illusions, and then there's flat out cheats when the same thing can be done with marking a note'

Zane says, 'I don't write the code. I write wish-lists.'

Zane snickers softly.

LadyAce says, 'innocuous things would be fun, but distinguishing them from important things would be a toughie'

Kaige nods her agreement with LadyAce.

LadyAce says, 'Sure, but part of what we try to do is give you a sense of the issues we face with the wish list ...'

Zane says, 'In all honesty, my understanding of code in games is limited to having played 'RPG Maker'. I know what I like, but it's up to you guys to interpret that in terms of MUD code.'

LadyAce says, 'if we wanted to, we could just sell you a line about how everything is possible :)'

Kaige says, 'since the mob can't tell the difference between "An elite guard sits down on the throne." and something like "unlocks the chains"'

LadyAce says, 'acts would have to be specifically marked as 'let them fool me with this one''

Zane says, 'It would really put this whole argument into perspective if I knew what this business with the chains was. I've never heard of this.'

LadyAce says, 'which is a big undertaking, and I'm not sure how much fun it would provide'

Kaige says, 'we only have one way to catch messages from the game to the mobs...'

LadyAce says, 'oh, it's an old bug that was abused then fixed. Marking notes used to be indistinguishable from doing an action'

LadyAce says, 'so marking a note 'unlocks the chains' would trigger acts that were triggered by actual unlocking of chains, bypassing all the checks on whether or not you could unlock those chains'

Kaige says, 'they ALL come in about 3 flavors... a) mobs see it this way, but players see it differently b) mobs see it and c) mobs don't see it.'

Kaige says, 'emotes aren't seen.'

Zane says, 'On second thought... the 'sits on the throne' thing would be a very BAD idea... it would allow a non-pker to cause Vlad to attack another non-pker, and that's wildly inappropriate.'

Lorenzo blinks.

Lorenzo says, 'wow, I missed *all* the action tonight'

Kaige says, 'messages from socials, and commands are more of the first two types'

LadyAce says to Zane, 'so yeah, measuring innocuous and marking things as such ... much work, for how much fun? :)'

LadyAce says, 'it IS fun to use the things mobs say to each other'

Chocorua says to Lorenzo, 'i got your files and am working soemthing up with them'

LadyAce says, 'greeting mobs in areas the way they greet each other, and seeing them response'

Kaige says, 'so when mobs could see certain messages like marking notes, they couldn't distinguish them from the actual action... which is why emphera isn't seen by mobs'

Zane says, 'I just want to be able to do more interesting things with illusions.'

Lorenzo smiles happily.

LadyAce says, 'er respond'

Lorenzo nods his agreement with Chocorua.

Lorenzo says to Chocorua, 'glad they're some use'

LadyAce says, 'well...some of the things we give to mages really are just toys'

AA-Aarington says, 'like firestorm?'

Zane says, 'Illusions are 'for entertainment purposes only', whereas the illusionist as a strong character class is a mainstay of pencil and paper RPGs.'

AA-Aarington ducks to the ground.

Kaige notes we have a rather dull-witted and literal GM in the computer.

LadyAce says, 'illusionist as a profession is something we've talked about providing in the future'

Chocorua says, 'yeah our GM is very predictable'

Kaige says, 'it's not very good at making judgement calls either'

Zane says, 'Here's a thought...'

LadyAce says, 'and it has *no* imagination!'

Kaige says, 'illusionist was always meant as more pvp than pve'

LadyAce says, 'then again, you don't have to go to his boring parties, drink his mead or nod enthusiastically when he goes on and on about star trek.'

AA-Aarington cheers wildly!

AA-Aarington says, 'sounds like the GM is me!'

Kaige says, 'no but I have to listen to his silly quotes whenever I do a full compile!'

Zane says, 'A mage wants to try to use an illusion to cause some in-game effect. That mage has to contact an immortal, tell that immortal what he wants to do, and then the immortal will cause the mob to react, if the mob would logically react.'

Zane says, 'This way, the immortal becomes a GM.'

AA-Aarington says, 'that way, the immortal becomes a ticking time bomb'

Zane says, 'The mage still has to successfully cast the spell, of course.'

AA-Aarington laughs.

Kaige nods her agreement with AA-Aarington.

AA-Aarington thinks about how hard it is to cast anything with 55 mind at his cast level.

AA-Aarington says, 'if it was like control weather--manawise for more powerful illusions and failurewise it might be more useful'

Lorenzo thinks less about it, cause he's even dumber.

Kaige says, 'it would be one thing during a tiny-plot that had imm support... but to expect that 24/7 to have an imm come do that is kinda... unrealistic.'

LadyAce says, 'we do put in mob customizations to socials and such. But the practice of deciphering natural language ... well.... we're not spookytalk.'

Zane says, 'No one's expecting 24/7 imm support.'

Zane says, 'It would function much like asking for a string.'

Zane says, 'First come, first serve, while supplies last.'

AA-Aarington says, 'theres a reason coupons go for so much'

AA-Aarington says, 'and are so rare'

Zane says, 'Served, rather.'

AA-Aarington gets a non-color string coupon from a small bag.

LadyAce says, 'which, if supplies are unlimited...becomes carpal tunnel :P'

Lorenzo says, 'no refunds, no exchanges'

Zane says, 'Create a new class of imm. 'RP imms' or something.'

Kaige says, 'yes, but you don't get in game advantages from strings. =)'

AA-Aarington laughs.

AA-Aarington puts a non-color string coupon in a small bag.

Chocorua says, 'not gonna create slave imms .. they would quit very fast'

LadyAce says, 'I think enlivening mobs for RP is different than what you're talking about'

Kaige says, 'and we'd get calls of favoritism and unfairness if we did it for some and not others, because there weren't imms available 24/7'

LadyAce says, 'we do enliven mobs for RP purposes, pretty much anytime someone arranges it in advance and sometimes just by request'

Zane says, 'Hell, I'd be a 'slave' imm.'

Chocorua says to Kaige, 'we already get that'

Kaige nods her agreement with Chocorua.

AA-Aarington says, 'zane, trust me you'd have no patience'

AA-Aarington says, 'you KNOW how many mages there are on the mud?'

LadyAce says, 'I'm not sure the benefits to the community would outweigh the cost.'

AA-Aarington says, '2c creates and 3c creates/causes'

Chocorua says, 'if you think i am insulting when i just state my opinion, you'd explode in days as an imm for that'

Zane says, 'I'd challenge you to try me, but being an immortal is probably considered a special honor, and I doubt I'm worthy.'

Zane snickers softly.

LadyAce says, 'if we have someone with the time and energy and responsibility and creativity to join the imm staff...we'd want them to exercise those things in as efficient way as possible.'

AA-Aarington laughs.

LadyAce says, 'oh, it's definitely "special" :) There's an application process, all on the website.'

AA-Aarington says, 'zane trust me, I'd just screw with you if you warned me or something'

Kaige says, 'it's considered work and a committment... I dunno about speicial honor so much as a lot of work.'

AA-Aarington says, 'just sit on a mage asking for illusions all day'

AA-Aarington says, 'plus while youve got a lineup for illusions, you cant use them yourself to cut lines'

AA-Aarington says, 'your mort alts would be found within days that way, and it's also unfair'

Zane says, 'What, an imm can't use his imm powers to benefit his non-imm alts? That sucks.'

Kaige says to AA-Aarington, 'and then you've got the others asking for restrings cause they're over rent... the ones asking for descs, and then the pair of pkers who are squabbling over who's harassing who'

AA-Aarington says, 'for what you're describing zane. you'd have to'

LadyAce says, 'imms can't use their immly powers to benefit their morts, that's a dead set rule'

Kaige says, 'any mort.. not just your own'

LadyAce says, 'violating that is a good way to get fired, and that does happen.'

LadyAce nods her agreement with Kaige.

AA-Aarington says, 'what does a builder inadvertently do to himself when he creats an area'

Chocorua nods his agreement with LadyAce.

AA-Aarington says, 'you can unlearn the bomb'

Chocorua says to LadyAce, 'HAS happened'

Zane says, 'You know what? When I ask for favors from imms (because that's just what string jobs are), I say please, and I thank them afterward. I also explicitly state that I am *only* requesting their services IF they have the time and inclination.'

Chocorua is being optimistic!

Kaige says, 'they don't go through and run all the quests as soon as it's installed... they're too busy fixing bugs from everyone else doing it'

AA-Aarington says, 'erm, can't unlearn the bomb'

Lorenzo says to AA-Aarington, 'sure you can. use it.'

LadyAce says, 'I appreciate politeness, but the requests are also my job to respond to'

LadyAce says, 'a coupon is a promise to do a string for someone'

Zane says, 'So if imms feel overwhelmed by my requests for such services, then I do sincerely apologize.'

LadyAce says, 'asking us to fulfill our promises isn't a favor.'

Kaige says, 'I was just adding up all the OTHER stuff that would be asked of an imm in that position whether they had the authority to deal with them or not...'

LadyAce says, 'you should be polite to waitresses too, but they're just doing their jobs.'

AA-Aarington says, 'right this is turning into an imm debate, is it my turn to complain yet?'

LadyAce giggles.

Zane says, 'Even if it is your job, if someone says to you 'Hey woman! Get down here and do this for me, right now!', you're going to tell them to take a hike.'

LadyAce says, 'do step on up. I hope it's more discussion than debate :)'

AA-Aarington says, 'or they could string then, then junk the string as punishment'

AA-Aarington laughs.

LadyAce says to Zane, 'well, volunteerism does come with a certain level of selectivity'

Chocorua says, 'LA prolly wouldn't but i would'

LadyAce says to Zane, 'but I don't expect anyone to consider it a favor...just politeness.'

LadyAce says to Chocorua, 'hey, they don't not-pay you to be nice :) they not-pay ME to be nice, not you.'

Chocorua says to LadyAce, 'as much as i try to be nice its just never enough .. heh'

AA-Aarington says, 'well maybe removing the pole would help'

AA-Aarington chuckles politely.

AA-Aarington says, 'sorry it's just too tempting'

AA-Aarington doesn't like silence in a debate

LadyAce says to AA-Aarington, 'careful, you may find it in your eye :)'

Chocorua says to AA-Aarington, 'heh there are opther tempting responses that i don't wanna clean up after'

AA-Aarington knows silence from imms means typing

Chocorua says, 'too much blood'

AA-Aarington and knows typing from imms without a coupon is BAD

Bug with the Roses Again?

AA-Aarington says, 'can you grow roses in june?'

Chocorua can

LadyAce says, '"can you tell what time it is before growing things?" "with difficulty"'

AA-Aarington wonders why a thicket in malta cannot

Kaige says, 'mine bloom in dec not june'

Kaige giggles.

Chocorua nods his agreement with Kaige.

AA-Aarington notices that the bush in malta has no roses in decebmer either

LadyAce says, 'I'm not sure how Kae has that set up actually. Lemme check.'

Chocorua says to Kaige, 'my nice ones do too'

Kaige says, 'drop Kae a bug report about it.. she's always fiddling with them...'

AA-Aarington says, 'well basically it's a general complaint'

AA-Aarington says, 'seasonal stuff can be a pain on the mud sometimes'

Kaige says, 'yeah.. but you also know if you miss it.. it will come around again'

Chocorua says, 'less of a pain than in real time though ... heh immagine waiting a real year'

LadyAce nods her agreement with Kaige.

AA-Aarington shrugs helplessly.

AA-Aarington says, 'well no roses in june, and none in winter'

Chocorua says, 'some roses only bloom in spring or fall'

LadyAce says, 'was it june IRL or june in mud?'

AA-Aarington says, 'let's be realistic here, kae isn't trying to give us a lesson in horticulture'

AA-Aarington says, 'mud june'

Chocorua says, 'she might be'

LadyAce says, 'could be that it'd been recently picked'

Chocorua says, 'a LOT of research goes into areas'

AA-Aarington says, 'is she also giving us a lesson in LA-esque geography?'

LadyAce frowns at AA-Aarington.

AA-Aarington says, 'what with the sun up at midnight in malta in june'

AA-Aarington ducks to the ground.

AA-Aarington still remembers eastern hemisphere-western hemisphere and the flag nobody could get to

LadyAce says, 'hey, I didn't write Malta :P that's an easy bug to make and fix, and I'm sure Kae will squash it.'

Kaige says, 'that's actually mud-wide based on the real life geographical position'

AA-Aarington laughs.

Zane says, 'Depending on Malta's proximity to the equator... I dunno my geography...'

LadyAce says to AA-Aarington, 'If only *you* lived in the panopticon and were mocked for every error.'

AA-Aarington says, 'yep, mediterranean in arctic or antarctic circle, gotcha'

AA-Aarington shrugs helplessly.

LadyAce says, 'more likely an oopsie in the weather section'

Kaige says, 'ireland has really weird sunrises and sunsets in the winter'

AA-Aarington shrugs helplessly.

Kaige says, 'err summer'

Chocorua says to AA-Aarington, 'a little more respect would be nice'

AA-Aarington says, 'it's closer to arctic circle'

Chocorua says, 'we really do want to fix things'

LadyAce says, 'weather messages aren't supposed to mention if it's day or night but it can be odd to try to talk about weather without talking about the level of light in the sky'

AA-Aarington shrugs helplessly.

AA-Aarington says, 'I'm just here to have fun, and you cant say I dont wanan fix things either'

AA-Aarington says, 'mix fun with fixing what do you get? "remember when..." humor'

LadyAce says, 'it just comes out naturally, talking about the sky where the weather is, then talking about sun or stars or moon, etc. So it's just a typo.'

Kaige says, 'malta's around 36oN'

LadyAce says, 'dunno, how long do you want people sitting around kicking you in the same little spot before bruises get old?'

LadyAce ruffles AA-Aarington's hair playfully.

Kaige says, 'so a little south of where spain and italy fall at the lowest'

Lorenzo says, 'I have a spot on my shin with no nerves from people kicking me there all the time.'

Lorenzo says, 'it's neat'

AA-Aarington says, 'I dunno, vendetta was the one who reminded me about those moments yesterday LA, blame him! not me! :P'

LadyAce says, 'uh huh.'

Kaige says, 'and yup. 36oN in the file.. so not Kae's fault...'

LadyAce says to Kaige, 'sun-related messages at 1am?'

Kaige says, 'but we haven't really found any reports yet we could pin on the code behind it...'

LadyAce says, 'oh, I see...a funny thing in #geography is what you're thinking'

Kaige says, 'mostly because people don't give enough info in the bug report... usually I see.. "It was light here at night"'

Kaige says, 'it's much better to tell us, what the message was, what time it was, what time of year it was...'

Kaige says, 'otherwise it's really hard to track down.'

AA-Aarington says, 'juen 6th in maltha, kinda funny I think it'll be june 13th mud time the same day it is in RL :)'

AA-Aarington is just typoriffic today

Kaige says, 'tho it could be this message?'

The air is still and warm, and the sun shines brightly overhead.

Chocorua says to AA-Aarington, 'time in game is much faster than RL'

AA-Aarington nods his agreement with Kaige.

LadyAce says, 'yea, that's it...summer weather message'

AA-Aarington says, 'yeah, but it's still cool'

Kaige says, 'ok that's a #WEATHER section bug that is builder error... MUCH easier to track when I know where to start looking.'

Kaige smiles happily.

AA-Aarington says, 'so uhhmmm'

AA-Aarington says, 'does an imm wanna try and damage my eq so I can log this AC error? I remember what was damaged when It lsat occured'

Kaige says, 'so Kae will fix it once Sandra let's her out of hell, or she decides she needs to do something else for her sanity.'

LadyAce giggles at Kaige.

Kaige says to AA-Aarington, 'you can log it any time... mail it to [email protected]'

AA-Aarington says to Kaige, 'well it's more prompt to have an imm damage my eq then repair it to try and replicate circumstances'

AA-Aarington says, 'plus you get that added credibility on board'

Kaige says, 'I'm saying if you don't get any volunteers'

AA-Aarington thanks Kaige heartily.

LadyAce says, 'other questions or topics out there?'

AA-Aarington peers around intently.

Chocorua says, 'looks like no'

Chocorua says, 'heh'

Kaige needs to get the monkeys in bed.

Kaige sighs loudly.

Chocorua needs to do dishes

LadyAce hugs Kaige.

AA-Aarington says, 'freddy in bed?'

Kaige says, 'no.. Elena and David.'

Kaige smirks.

Chocorua says, 'see ya all later'

Chocorua waves happily.

Kaige waves to Chocorua.

Kaige waves happily.

Kaige says, 'see y'all next week if not before.'

Lorenzo waves to Kaige.

Lorenzo waves to Chocorua.

Additional Topics Answered

Also, some of the builders will often have some feedback on suggestions and typos that get reported with some of their reasoning for why things are the way they are or won't be incorporated into the areas.

General Suggestions/Questions

o If I have a secondary attack weapon, does the getting basic/advanced/expert weapon proficiency improve it's attack power?

Weapons proficiencies only alter the speed/number of attacks on primary weapons that are wielded.

o The title of this room (On Olaf's Road Near the Hallr) has an r at the end. Should that be an s?

It's part of the Skandinavian feel. Generally, "hallr" means a rock or a hill or more generally a hero. In the case where it is used in Viking Skandinavia, it appears to be a specific place.

o The Romanian cup should not have keyword chalice, it prevents mages from using their chalcie in the room.

There are going to be numerous items in the game that have the same keywords. Objects and NPCs should have the most recognizable nouns and adjectives from their long descriptions as keywords for ease of reference and manipulation. You'll need to figure out another keyword for the one you're holding.

o Seems when I taint an arrow with a potion that weakens, clumsies and idiocies, I only get the first affect.

Ammo type objects have always only been able to carry one spell affect on them.

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