Posted by Chaykin on 09/03
First of all, anyone who can, with a straight face, insist that there is
nothing wrong with the pkill system as it stands now is delusional. Then
again, taking note that a healthy portion of the players who are adamantly
against PKOK are the a-holes Barabas mentioned, maybe that's not too far
off the mark. :P
Seriously though, the mere fact that there is so much debate over PKOK
proves that a lot of people aren't happy. And I've been listening to
whispers of discontent for three years, which only in the past year or so
have risen (consistently) above a whisper.
Some people have raised valid concerns about PKOK, which is why I think
the discussion that's going on now (probably one of the most constructive
I can remember about a change like this -applaud-) is great.
One of the good points I saw made a few times was about the loss of that
excitement over being jumped suddenly. But the thing is, as I understand
PKOK (maybe I'm wrong) you CAN have that if you want it, with PKOK ALL.
The point is, some people don't want it, and this new code gives them the
_option_ of not having to get jumped. The hardcore guys can all PKOK ALL
and for them, things will be exactly as they are; they can jump each
other until their daggers break from the stress.
I for one think it's worth a try.
-Chay
From: Darkheart
Friday, September 03, 12:33AM
The trouble with pkok is that anyone is open to use and abuse pkok.
There's no imm involved in enabling a character, and there's no effort
and time involved in de-enabling a character.
Sure it sounds great for those of you used not to taking responsibility
for your past decisions, and i do agree that for some the past mistake is
one fairly tough to recover from. However, if anything you did was
as easily backout-able, why not make this game like any other RPGs that
are geared toward ONE player, allowing you to save, commit an action,
then reload if you don't like it?
There is a good portion of this game that comes from committing actions
that aren't easy to back out from. Some actions are hardcoded, some
actions just burn in others' minds. To eliminate such consequences for
something as significant as a decision to "KILL another PLAYER" i think
the current pk system is valid.
I am not denying that it isn't a user-friendly environment, but in the
game of mobkill, things are worse. There are agg mobs that will multi
you for sure if you re-enter, there are DTs that will loot every single
item without even giving you a chance to get them back, and there are
mobs that wolfpack you.
And just as in mobkill, you can stay out of all that even in pkill. Inste
of simply deciding where not to go or where to go physically, you
just have to watch where your words go, and what kind of actions
to take.
Besides, if all else fails, do what you would do if the same thing
happened against a mob. Make a CR group, make a wolfpack and get it
back. If you have been acting righteously and wisely, there will be
people there to help you.
Darkheart Harkzael
From: Deathangel
Friday, September 03, 06:14AM
The whispers/voices of discontenet have always been around and will
always be around.. the ebb and flow like the tide.. no matter what is
done, there will be poeple who don't like it... and as I've said time
and again, no the current system isn't perfect, but I firmly believe
the pkok system is a much worse answer.. and because I do I'm labeled
an (expletive deleted)? Well I'm not someone who enjoys being jumped
and jumping all the time, Im not some evildoer who enjoys 'ruining everyon
elses fun' what I am is a mediocre pker wh has been multi'd and wolfpacke
. Did I run screaming? no do I cry and whine because 'player y'
cheated? no, because he didn't.. as DH has repeatedly said the
underlying fact of PK is responsibilty.. You must be prepared to take
responsibility for your own actions, until you can, you have no business
getting involved in pk.. pkok would remove any responsibility or
repercussions from everything you do.. Everyone keeps saying you can pkok
all and get the effect you desire of a free-for all.. no, you can't
there are several 'players' who will hide behind the pkok mask
jump out, attack one of the so called 'aholes' possibly multi and
looting them then hide behind the mask and avoid any concrete
consequences for their actions.. and people who say that this won't
happen.. quit deluding yourself, it will.. a lot of these big mean pkers
may play bastards, but at least they're honest about it
And I won't even get too far into the xplay aspect of it.. that's a can of
worm's I'm going to touch only lightly in passing.. if pkok becomes a
reality you'd might as well rip out all the rules given about xplay
they're going to be ignored anyway.. how do you propose to stop someone
from jumping someone else with all his alts when he decides he has a grudg
From: Barabas
Friday, September 03, 09:01AM
For the record, I don't think everyone that disagrees with pkok
is an asshole. Nor did I say that in my previous post.
What I do think is that pkok could be fun, and without all the
charts and numbers that Darkheart has proposed. Will there be
problems to work out? Yeah of course there will..
But to address the constant point of "If you pkill you will
be multi/looted/wolfpacked so just deal with it." That's
crap.. sure those things happen but I really doubt it was
the intention of pkill to have some ass sitting in the
inn kicking your head in every time you entered the game
at 1 hp. What a challenge, eh?
And yes, you are responsible for your actions now and will be
in the new system. As long as there is a way to exclude
someone in whatever pkok list is put in place, you can
enable all and then exclude whatever person or groups
have shown bad manners in the past. Is that so bad?
Yes it is more artifical and I'm sad to see that the old
way of pkill hasn't worked but it hasn't. Pkill isn't
anywhere as popular as it used to be. And that's not a
code thing.. I don't blame people like DH or Dune,
in fact I respect those guys since they don't multi
or wolf unless their opponent goes there first.
But the fact is, something needs to change.
Barabas BoneCrusher
From: LadyAce
Friday, September 03, 09:44AM
I'm not sure why Darkheart says in his post that there will be
no imm involvement in enabling. Not only is the policy for this
system not set, it was my impression that we would still be
enabling people by hand and individually. While it's likely
to be a bit of work, I think it's necessary in order to explain
the rules.
Yes, there's an increased risk of xplay, but there's also a
proportional increase in responsibility for one's own actions.
Unlike what is said above, I most definitely think that the
system increases your accountability for your actions. Your
reputation becomes vital to your fun.
Somewhere along the line, I think players lost a measure of
trust for each other that they'd had previously. All attempts
to change the environment through social means have essentially
failed, with every side blaming every other side.
I know that you've said that generally RP'ers are left alone,
and the 'pk just for fun' crowd stays within its own boundaries.
This doesn't always work, and this isn't even realistic. What
makes you think that all RPers (or even all for-fun'ers) are
purists in that fashion? After all, maybe that RP-style pker
would like to do a bit of for-fun stuff now and then, but
they know that once they enter that game, no one would let
them out of it. And yet a middle ground, wherein each
person treats the other with some consideration and respect,
has not developed.
Since PKOK will be only one of several 'set-on-the-fly' PK
settings, maybe someday we'll all have changed such that
we can toggle it back. Hard to say, really.
At any rate, I hope to hear all of your comments after
the actual policies are worked out and posted publically --
getting all worked up over how you think we might do things
and how someone might abuse the system if we set things up
according to your worst nightmare, is not really productive.
-LA
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