Posted by Darkheart on 07/28
Whee, got sick of reading all the backposts, and having read the past
20, think i get the picture... it's the same old argument between those
that think pk is 'out of hand' and should be 'rp'd and controlled' and tho
that wish for more carefree pk environment, one in which people can
seriously just enjoy pk.
hence we had many suggestions, such as reducing xp loss per death,
blah blah blah, retirement system independent of xp, etc etc.
the bottom line is that this isn't a pk-only mud, so code changes
affecting the pk community 'only' will have low priority unless it's
a serious problem, such as one stat being overpowered (even then
it takes forever). I guess my point is that although it may seem
a change that'll only affect the pk community, anything that livens
up and relaxes (reduces stress and frustration) the pk community will
essentially liven up the entire community and help break down the
current separation of pk and rp hostility.
personally i believe that no xp-loss in pk is a good point in which
to start. multi's then will be much more easily classifiable into
offenses (harassment, since it has 0 in-game effectiveness), and of
course, punishment should be dealt swiftly upon violation. not losing
xp, the pk scene will shift a lot, not necessarily to the free killing
spree most people think it may result in.
but since that's a tad bit too far into the unknown, an 'incentive' and
'reasoning' system is in order. i personally think 'zoning' is a
good idea, sectioning legend into mini-areas that can be 'claimed' by
a clan, whose flag will be 'maintained' only when members of the clan
are in the area for at least a certain period of time, reclaimable by
others if their stay exceeds the other clan's stay.
of course, maintenance should have benefits, which will be a
clan income, or exemption of housing if clanhall is located
within that area. hell, we could have part of the housing costs
unlock u
open u that area to go to the clan, even.
of course this will be a helluva lot of code, but if a clan wants
a lot of 'action', it can simply try to claim as many areas as
possible, and simply 'deal with' trespassers. those who don't
want action will have to lead a slightly complicated life, or
will simply have to try to outsmart those that wait in ambush.
heh, and that will also reduce conflicts in other areas if the
clan is spread too thin...
the other way is to have a clan xp system. a clan should be allowed
to level according to the amount of pk-xp accumulated by its
members, and a clan with more xp should be allowed more members,
at the very least, and have additional benefits.
these things will put rogues at a disadvantage, but if rogues are
allowed to sell 'pk-points' to clans, that could make room for som
really interesting mercenary work.
dh
From: Chimera
Thursday, July 22, 01:37PM
I don't buy your 'multi's will go away if there's no xp loss in
pkill' as long as Xp is still rewarded to the winner. A 0 XP loss
system with an xp reward in it would just be a way to abuse the
system (join a clan at level 10, have your gm get beat up, have
him/her turn death announce off, and kill him til you're 50).
I like the idea of the clan xp system more than the 'sectioning the
mud into conquerable mini-areas.' If I had an area that I had built
here I don't think I'd want it 'sectioned'. However I don't see that
the clan xp system and the 0 xp loss in pkill work hand in hand (as
demonstrated by my post above... I can see a clan having a 'scapegoat'
character with an autologin, anndeath off, and a dedicated line who
just sits in their clanhall all day and lets people beat on him for
"clan XP" so that the whole clan can get more benefits)
Okay, I'm done giving you people bad ideas. =p
Chimera
From: Orphen
Friday, July 23, 05:29PM
Thought you were in the military..
From: Ton
Saturday, July 24, 10:20AM
Well not sure I like the zoning idea either, but the clan xp thing
sounds interesting. I have to agree with DH here and disagree with
Chim. I think if there is a 0xp loss for pk death, the result will
not be multi-city. Well perhaps I should expand on that. Basically
I like the idea of multi == harassment. Understandable if you pretype
and are lagged, and do it once accidentally, but beyond that it
would serve no purpose, and is really unnecessary.
Furthurmore, in regard to pk xp. If the problem is that there would
be no xp loss from death, and xp gained from winning, do away with
the xp from winning. Because in all honestly, I think that recieving
no more than 20k xp for a pk win is laughable. For the diffiulty in
winning same level fights consistantly, the reward should be much
greater. Maybe xp from pkill could be based on damage you took, damage you
dealt, length of fight, etc. So that those close matches earned more xp.
Ok, off topic a little. I think many would agree that xp gain from
pk is really nothing though, and if it was a problem, the xp gain could
be yanked without too many complaints from the pk community. (providing
that it meant some other changes, like reduced xp loss from death)
Ton
From: Infidel
Saturday, July 24, 01:41PM
I think there'd be more multi but then, would the victim care?
From: Vampyr
Saturday, July 24, 07:54PM
I think that 0 xp from pkill deaths is stupid, people would multi just
for the sake of stopping the opponent from levelling, they can be just
as mean when an xp loss isn't in question, and will have an excuse...
well you didn't lose xp, why do you care?
From: Ton
Sunday, July 25, 12:19AM
Simply make multi beyond 1 time illegal and punishable as harassment. I
think that was allready stated a couple of times.
From: Kaeos
Sunday, July 25, 12:26AM
You could also make a timer on the person that just died.
He or she that just died could have a 3 tick timer
placed on him/her. During the life of that timer,
he or she cannot pkill or be pkilled. This will
allow for no multi's.
Kaeos
From: Love
Sunday, July 25, 01:10AM
I like the 0 xp for pk win, as well as 0 xp for pk death idea a lot.
I think it's a good point that multi can then easily be told to be
harrassment or not, since there'd be no point to it OTHER than harrassment
discounting the odd pretype.
The other idea I also really like is the one based on how much damage
dealt, received, etc etc. Though I think that's probably a lot more coding
I do think that the 0 xp thing would lead to a better pk environment, sinc
levelling off pk is cool, but really, I don't -think- xp is the main
reason why most people pk. I know it isn't why I pk.
Just my two cents.
LooooooOOooooove
From: Ton
Monday, July 26, 01:15AM
There is also the possibility as mentioned of a simple timer. Doesn't have
to be very long, I'd say 3 ticks is enough to get to your corpse,
get your stuff, and run. I'd say that most people pk, and try to win at
pk for their own personal pride, and to see their name on info. Its one
of the most effective ways to brag about yourself really. Certainly if
xp wasn't an issue, people would be less stressed about losing, and
I think you'd see a lot more sportsmanship between characters, and also
a lot less whining, accusing, and PO'd people.
Ton
From: Darkheart
Wednesday, July 28, 11:13AM
the main thing about xp loss being 0 is not that it will stop
multi, but that it will take out a great chunk of 'in-game'
motivation to do so -- perma, threat of perma, levelling, etc.
all that's left when you take out the above in-game motivation
is simple harassing (of course, we'll still have those that
come online and shoot their mouth off -- but then i think we
should apply the harassment code to the 'recently deceased').
harassment is punishable, and once we all agree (or rather,
some/most of us agree) that multi has no in-game function but
is only harrassment, things will be easier to iron out.
personally, however, i don't see multi and such as a big deal,
those have always been dealt with by the rest of the pk populace.
what i want to get rid of is those that feel 'victimized' a tad
bit TOO much (those sensitive folk) upon a 'random' kill.
sure a death will still mean some healing and a break from what
you were doing then and there, but that was the cost of enabling,
no?
dh
From: Darkheart
Wednesday, July 28, 11:43AM
Further on the sectioning:
i'm not suggesting we section the mud into pk and nonpk, but having
sections that can be logically 'taken' or 'conquered.' Anything that
has enough incentive for clans (pk or nonpk, even) to invest time in.
Purpose is to have prize areas that are worth fighting over, or holding
onto, so that clans can be 'bound' by their own search for profit.
Of course, money has to do a lot of good, or clan halls be made rather
nifty, or have other features as 'friendship' within the town, etc.
Clan xp can also be more of a 'thematic' thing than actual xps. It could
be gained by hours logged by clan members, given as rp prize, or anything
else that could deserve merit and stuff. Doesn't necessarily have to
be bound to pk xp. Another something that could 'bind' pkers into
doing something other than random jumping, IF the profit is great
enough.
heck, if xploss is 0, then it's actually very very likely that
clans will end up being a group of players who like to kill
each other, as opposed to other people. me, personally, would
more than love to keep fighting dune and infidel if there's no
silly xp thing involved, just for kicks, to try out new things...
dh
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