Posted by Jean on 05/04
ok, im posting this a post apart so even the imms will
look at it (well, if they saw the part about me usually
not quoting in starting posts anyways)- why -not- have
a nice little gag feature in the board code? Wuss said it
the best in his read next append (post 47). Ironically,
he wrote it -just- before Sandras post, the one saying
how I should stop quoting- clearly, Wusss solution is a
much more peaceful one. From what Ive heard,
however, instead of doing this, it seems that what
might be decided is that im just denied access from the
boards. let the record show that i -do- have some
defenders, notably ulric, skateboarder and ronnie), why
not do some code thatll antagonize -no one- and solve
the problem in almost exactly the same way- people
who dont want to see my posts wont have to.
From: Sabella
Sunday, May 02, 08:41AM
Jean, a gag command for boards might solve everyone else's problem
with your quoting, but will not solve your problem (the one you don't
seem to realize you have) with communicating your message. As you
yourself have pointed out, if everyone really wanted to get rid of
you, the easiest way to do so would be to quit responding to you. As
your enjoyment of the game is clearly defined by the social discussion
element, if noone reads your posts and noone responds to them, you
won't be having fun. Both the gag command you're campaigning for, and
a board of your own will accomplish just that - help/allow people not
to read what you're writing. Those who would -like- to read and discuss
what you have to say, but need your help in communicating in a manner we
can deal with are not aided at all.
As to paraphrasing. Repeating someone else's words exactly does not
indicate that you have heard or, more importantly, understood them. If you
take any class in effective communication (or look it up on the net), they
indicate that repeating the other person's comments -in your own words- is
a particularly effective means of indicating you are listening and
understanding, and responding to the intent of the other person you are
trying to communicate with (rather than thinking of your 'rebuttal' while
they're talking, for example). Certainly it is more difficult - who said
communication was supposed to be easy?
No, immorts are not technically required to read everything on any of the
boards. Most of us, who have spent a lot of time and energy on this game
and care about it a great deal, choose to do so. It is one of the few
actually effective means of communication we have with the players, works
somewhat well (has it's own problems) for player input and discussion of
player ideas (the discussion board, that is). I would think the last
thing that anyone who wants to see their ideas considered and possibly
implemented wants is to discourage immorts (especially immorts like rufus
who has a lot of ability to implement and a very limited amount of time
anymore) from reading this board.
As to Ceri using the info channel for congrats and condolences. No this is
not 'spam'. She is using the channel as it is intended to be used. It says
so specifically in help channels. The info channel is for announcement
of death and levels and congrats and condolences of such. It is possible
to turn off everything except the announcements, if you don't care to hear
the grats etc. If she is interferring with your conversation, maybe you
should take conversation to chat: the channel intended for conversation.
A definition of spam: when the 'noise' level exceeds the 'content' level,
it's spam. There is content in what you have to say. There's also a great
deal of 'noise' (repeating of what everyone else has said, and quite often
what you've said, ad nauseum). The noise level is heavily outweighing the
content. You've been asked many times to reduce the noise level, while
retaining the content and I fail to see why that is so difficult for you
-except- that I have a suspicion you would see this as 'losing'.
Which brings me to... apparently you see discussion as some sort of battle
something akin to pk in words. There are 'winners' and 'losers' in your
view. In my opinion, the only way to 'win' in conversation would be to
put forth your view in such a way that it is well understood and sway
other people to your point of view, and to be able to compromise and give
on points so that there is a satisfactory conclusion where everyone feels
happy and noone feels like a 'loser' (no, I'm not saying I'm good at this)
If you make other people feel bad, if they quit responding to you, if they
won't listen to your points, you have actually -lost- even though you
might have had the last word. The last -word- is useless in debate, and
so is hurting and upsetting the people you want to sway to your opinions.
As to xping being boring (or whatever else people are doing) so everyone
should be happy to put their time into reading, debating, talking, helping
newbies or whatever else you see as less boring (or even hitting read next
a lot). Different people have different levels of tedium/reward they
find necessary to enjoy a game. There needs to be some of both - some
difficulty, need to strive, or the game is too easy and some amount of
reward that makes that striving worthwhile. Fir example, I find chess
unimaginably boring, way too tedious for the reward of winning, but I
love bridge and will happily spend hours going over various possible
combinations of hands and the bidding and play just to improve at the game
The kinds of things I need to put into bridge are enjoyable somewhere
in MY head, and make the tedium worthwhile. I do not expect other people
to feel the same as I do. I think you would do well to consider that
even though you find some activities the most boring thing you can imagine
other people may very well enjoy them (which isn't to say that mob killing
doesn't need to be made more interesting).
I think that's everything I had to say, though the noise level is so
high, it's really hard to tell anymore.
Sabella
From: Sabella
Sunday, May 02, 09:25AM
I misspoke. The admin immorts responsible for maintaining a reasonable
level of conversation on open channels and boards (no cussing, no game
play info, no racial slurs etc.) are literally required to read all
the boards (including even the guestbooks and such-like). I, as an
asst. builder, am not. Sorry,
Sabella
From: Embeth
Sunday, May 02, 09:37AM
Well spoken, Sabella
Embeth
From: Krystal
Sunday, May 02, 07:08PM
in append 1, Sabella writes:
(part 1 of 2)
i communicate my message just fine with people who
have a little time to scan through a few quotes (maybe
reading a few for proper context, as i intended). As is
clear in board 58, there are some people that feel that
the way i write should be accepted by everyone.
Yep. but that just doesnt happen.. which suggests that
they -do- want to talk to me.
Exactly. But that hasnt happened- instead, i was denied
access with jean.
-exactly-. then the people who -do- want to read my
posts can read them and the people who dont wont
have to.
True enough. My response would (or would not) do
that.
No one. I think my posts clearly show how difficult it
can be to respond to people at times, considering that
emotions can be in here a fair amount as well. But why
make things unnecessarily complicated?
Im glad :-).
such as?
nods.
When I have a -really- good idea, ill start a post with
it. After that, its an idea in debate and doesnt need an
immortal to look at it right away- ill wait until the
debate is over- if i win it, -then- i might consider doing
a post solely on that. Ive used this method in the past
(sorta) such as when wuss and a few others refused to
respond to my posts anymore (so i took it that i won by
default) and posted hypocrisy and avoidance).
Perhaps the way its intended to be used should be
changed. People like me and Wuss certainly think so
and were not the only ones.
the info channel can be used for exchanging certain info
though- the very name suggests it should be used for
that. However, if its being used up by Ceris grats and
all, it can wreck this to a certain extent. Im talking
mainly theoretical here, as I turned off the info channel
long ago, but Wuss and others, whove gotten used to
using it in the way described above feel differently.
To me, an automated grats is all noise and no content-
id think wuss feels the same way.
i repeat sections of what others have said in order to
provide context to my replies without having to
paraphrase. I repeat what I say at times simply
because people dont read all my posts and so will miss
what ive said here or there. Recently, ive been using
some of my posts as reference points, as this one is, to
avoid repeating points ive already made.
From: Krystal
Sunday, May 02, 07:08PM
in append 1, Sabella writes:
(part 2 of 2)
According to many, perhaps. Not all though. And the
fact of the matter is, if people -really- did think it was
noisy, everyone would just stop replying to my posts.
But that certainly hasnt happened- in fact, im now
practically the -only- topic on here.
You always seem to avoid my points. Perhaps -you-
should quote me- that way, id just be able to look
above and show you where ive already rebutted your
points, he he :-p.
And yet you think you can teach it. Im not trying to
make anyone lose. As I told Sandra, I told her shed get
no peace until she tried to compromise with me- such
as, say, making me my own board, where only people
who wanted to talk to me could talk to me. But she
-does- want to win and win badly. Its the whole pk
mentality, something that I -never- got into.
I dont want to upset people, but at times, theres no
way to avoid it and make ones points in the way that
one feels the need to do it in.
Hey, i said xping, not whatever else.
For sure. But right now I think that the level of tedium
to get to level 50 is -far- to great. Perhaps if the xp
required to get there were halved or quests were given
a lot more xp.. By the way, im -definitely- not the only
person who feels this way- just recently, someone else
shivered at the prospect of getting xp on here and ive
talked to many others who feel the same way..
Same :-).
well, i cant say im the same- you see, far from what
you think, I actually really dislike games where you
only have 2 choices- to win or lose (sometimes to draw,
but rarely). Thats why i like m---s so much- because
unless youre into pking, its not -so- much about
winning or losing- xping is pretty much a sure bet- put
in the hours and youll get to 50. The problem in this
case though, is that levelling can get pretty tedious
after a while.
Ive found very few people who actually enjoy xping to
the extent that its currently required to get to 50.
<(which isn't to say that mob killing doesn't need to be
made more interesting).>
that might be pretty difficult to implement- but
lessening the amount of xp required to level and
raising the amount of xp given per average xp quest
wouldnt be.
From: Sandra
Sunday, May 02, 07:20PM
You just don't seem to have a clue. This isn't some game between
you and I where we see who can hold out the longest. Trust me,
you'd lose if it were.
Enjoy your latest warning and punishment.
Sandra
From: Wanderer
Tuesday, May 04, 07:34PM
in response to Sandra (append 6):
Ive realized my mistake Sandra- indeed, i quoted too
much. Perhaps one day youll realize that denying
people access, archiving them and other forms of what
is essentially serious harassment in almost any other
context, isnt the best way of trying to persuade
someone to your opinion. Probably the best argument
you could have made you never even bothered to-
Sabella made it on your behalf, though- the idea being
that you -have- to read everyones posts, whether you
like to or not and regardless of what board theyre on
(so even if you made me a board, youd have to read
them). I hear you even have to read guestbooks.. Id be
interested in knowing why Kaige/someone else made
this rule up, thats for sure.. Anyways, in reference to
yous aying that this isnt a game- life itself can be
considered to be a game. And in terms of holding on
the longest, youre thinking pretty short term- for one,
youre assuming that youll always be head admin. For
another, youre assuming that legend will continue to
do well indefinitely- it may run into a -myriad- of
problems. For yet another, until now, I dont even
-know- how to mess around with a mud, but that can
always change. In the conversation we had together,
you seemed to make it pretty clear that you werent
that interested in responding to what i said, frequently
not responding to something i said at all- you certainly
want a quick response when -you- say something
though. heres a hint- treat your players as you
would like to be treated. Because you never know
when theyll be able to treat you the way -they- like
to- when/if that day comes, you might be a lot more
interested in the way you treated -them-.
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