Posted by Flower on 05/02
ok. now I hardly ever write on any of the boards, even though I
do read them. A lot of you may know me, and a lot of you may not.
Normally..I'm a really nice person..but you know what?
in this case I have to say...Jean..give it a break!
God man! Get off your high horse will you? I'm sick and tired of
reading about how awesome and helpful you are and how much the
rest of us suck.
There are a LOT of people on this mud who stop to help newbies.
yes ok sometimes some of them slip through the cracks, but for
the most part, if you ask for help and are nice about it,
you GET help.
Have you ever thought Jean, that in your case, and whenever you ask
for help for other people, you don't get help because you're annoying?
you sit there all high and mighty and put us down, and you think we're
willing to help you? umm you got another thing comin toots!
-- Lady Flower Cat O'Brian's Player =^:^=
From: Lancelot
Monday, April 26, 05:01PM
WOW calm down kitty -pet-
-gives kitty bowl of milk-
ahh now isnt that better =)
From: Lethargio
Monday, April 26, 07:39PM
yeah, I know the feeling; they gotta understand that they're not going to
get help every single time they ask. A lot of people here _do_ help a
lot, but just not every single moment when they're online :P
In my case, I help someone who asks on chat if I'm feeling helpful,
or if I see theres a newbie who might need some help right in front of me,
but I usually turn down those who blatantly ask me for a favor (eq, xp, et
c.)
Just don't expect to _always_ get help, you'll get it if you ask nicely an
be persistant.
Leth
Er, the cut off was "and be persistant"
From: Leatherface
Monday, April 26, 10:40PM
btw- 'persistance' dosn't mean spam tells/semi spam tells(every 5 min)
Also, I happen to agree with Flower about you. I have heard nothing but
criticism for our mud/pk system from an unenabled, inexperianced
NEWBIE. Yeah, I don't care how many muds you have 'masterd', your a newbie
here, buddy. You certainly arn't doing much to make friends, either,
so don't be supprised when people laugh at you if ya want help.
Leatherface.
From: Bronwyn
Monday, April 26, 10:49PM
Personally I've never seen Jean ever ask for anything reasonable.
I'm not saying he hasn't, I'm just pointing out that I'm here an awful lot
and have never seen it. I have, however seen him spam until discussions
were opened for him, insult the system the imms have worked hard over
many years to build, and tell us that this mud, one which has won
accolades and honorable mentions all over the virtual world would
benefit from the suggestions of someone that obviously doesn't
even care enough about it to try and play it himself.
I think that in order to comment on a mud, you really ought to have
attempted to learn it YOURSELF, not through a web page that gives
away the info about it, not through attempting to 'talk' vital info
out of people, not by having friends give you eq and money, and
NOT by insulting the inherent system until you've at least seen for
yourself whether or not it works.
And, since Jean will no doubt respond to this, as he seems to think
himself an authority, because he's played other muds... well...
I've played other places too... I worked my way up to immort on 2
other muds, spending about 2 years on each, and eventually building.
I've also been Head Builder on a different mud (a position I was offered
due to my building on one of the previous ones) and then went on to start
my own and serve as Imp... a mud which, sadly is defunct due to lack
of a site... but which I'm also working on and revamping the code on
with some help... and will open again soon.
Oh, yeah, and did I mention I've played here for somewhere around 4
years... and have many, many, many hours logged.
So, well... now that I've set out my mudding experience, I'll say:
I never have played or worked on another mud as good as Legend, as
far as the way the system works, and how well balanced it is.
Neither have I ever played on one as friendly as this one once was.
Sadly, it's not quite as friendly as it was, and a lot of good players
have gone on to other things... but some of them are here, and many
of the people I met here have become close friends.
I don't think there could possibly be as many places as nice as Legend
is in all its myriad aspects, and I couldn't begin to ennumerate them
in a board post.
In any case, I'll end my post by saying something that's not very
in character for me, and perhaps rather petty and say:
Jean, go bug some other mud... I, for one don't think you do a bloody
thing here other than spam the boards and raise tempers.
Bronwyn MacLaren-Ilnos
From: Jean
Tuesday, April 27, 12:37AM
Flower writes:
I didnt say that. But id like to say right now
that some of the people on Legend are -very-
helpful, helping me power level, no less.
However, others are far less helpful, as when
they wont even help a newbie find their way
home but would rather talk about why they
dont want to do it.
If one asks a person personally, that works often
enough for me anyways. chat only seems to be
good when theres a real nice player on it.
Actually, I get a fair amount of help. Ive made
friends here and I now have a fairly good
understanding of how this mud works to boot. I
was actually more concerned about people
whove been here a fair amount less then i- as
some may have noticed, Ive had a -lot- of time
to be on here- ive probably racked up about
100 hours with all my chars on here already.
he he he :-). If you took a look around, you
might see that recently, ive just been trying to
maintain my credibility- there are many
players here whove said that im not qualified
enough to even voice my opinion. Anyways,
you sound real cute Flower and I hope you
dont stay upset with me.
From: Jean
Tuesday, April 27, 12:37AM
in append 1 Lancelot writes:
lol :-).
From: Jean
Tuesday, April 27, 12:38AM
in append 2, Lethargio writes:
If it has to do with levelling or eq, its
understandable to a certain extent (though i
think id try to help even here myself, if i wasnt
busy writing a note or doing a group xp run).
Neither do I, as Ive just mentioned..
What about the favour of being rescued?
Some people dont like persistant players- they
call them badgering. Asking a different player
each time would be the best solution id think.
Personally, Im glad I dont really need anything
right now, because I dont like asking for
favours much myself.
From: Jean
Tuesday, April 27, 12:41AM
in append 3, Leatherface writes:
Clearly, you havent been paying very close
attention on all counts. Let me show you your
mistakes:
1- I have done far more then criticism. I doubt
anyone but perhaps the programmers on here
have come up with as many ideas on improving
this mud as I have in so short a time period.
2- Ive said more then once of how i think this is
the best mud ive ever been on (and ive been
on a fair number)
3- Ive been pk enabled on other muds (though
not by choice) and -really- didnt find it to my
liking. Ive heard some comments that pking on
here is quite different but Ive heard of no
evidence to date that that is indeed the case.
4- I may be fairly new on this mud (though at
around 100 hours, im no longer the neophyte i
once was even on this mud). However, Ive been
on other muds for years and have played for
atleast 1000 hours on them (probably more).
And, ofcourse, im still playing this your way-
with the assumption that only by playing on a
mud for x amount of time can you judge
elements within that mud. To me, thats like
saying that we shouldnt go in Kosovo because
we dont fully comprehend the situation- in
other words, I think that some actions dont
require in depth study to know that something
should be done, though in depth study certainly
is a good idea. And on that count, I think Im a
master. Ive taken in -everyones- argument,
absorbed what they said, found strengths in
their arguments and weakness in my own and
acknowledged both. By the same token, Ive also
found weaknesses in their arguments and
strengths in my own and pointed them out. Ive
been arguing points since i was quite young and
have rarely lost an argument- differing points
of view are of immense interest to me and i
think about them atleast a few hours each day-
heck, i make little stories in my head, with
different characters expressing their differing
viewpoints to each other all the time. So in
terms of discussion, I don t think im bad at it..
not bad at all.
It amuses me that people come to this
conclusion. As if you knew all the events that
happen in my mud life. I once told someone
here that I had about 5 friends on here, though
none of them knew my life story. Thinking about
that after I wrote it, I realized, however, that I
actually -had- told someone on here my deepest
secrets; true, the rest of my life story still
hasnt been told, but its easier to tell.
From: Jean
Tuesday, April 27, 12:44AM
in append 4, Bronwyn writes:
Id be very interested in knowing your
definition of reasonable.
Id be interested in knowing your definition of
spam too..
and your definition of insult..
i suppose your definition of playing is
synonymous to xping? Because I -strongly-
disagree with this one. I actually have xped,
exhausted from trying to make this place better.
Xping is a piece of cake for someone whos
known muds as I have. Posting in this discussion
group, however, can be very hard sometimes.
When And when no one replies for a while or
criticizes me over and over.. -that- is tough.
I -do- learn it myself. I think what you mean is
that I should learn it the hard way (why, i have
no idea, but there you have it). To me, the
lifeblood of any mud is the interactions between
players. That includes relationships and
discussions. In this area, I pour my heart out to
the point of strong pain. Almost no effort is to
great here, because this is the type of thing I
live for. The rest is easy. EQ? Kill this or that
mob. Money? Sell this or that item. Writing up a
web page with item info? If someone came up
with the idea and Andara hadnt already done
such an excellent job, Id do it myself, because I
-love- knowledge and obtaining it in a need to
know basis; unless its better learned in a
different way, as in, say a message, in which
case id think starting from the beginning and
working ones way through the appends would
be the way to go.
Ofcourse it works. Thats not the point. the point
is that I think it can be improved and have
made my recommendations along with my
reasons for them.
About your comments that youve been
playing, immorting, building and all, I
congratulate you. However, were not talking
about building here per se- My best field clearly
isnt that (ive never done it yet, though i am
somewhat interested in it). Id argue that what I
excel in is in figuring out how things should be
done in a moral way and in just generating
ideas. Ive done this since I was very little and
think Im quite good at it; and go ahead, disagree
with me, complete with points- I -want- to
interact, even if its with someone whos
criticizing me a fair amount. God, you remind
me of the old Bronwyn I used to know so long
ago.
this intrigues me.. i havent heard this type of
thing before. I wonder why you think its
become less friendly.
Well, youre entitled to your own opinion. If it
makes you feel any better, then know that
youve hurt me.
From: Bronwyn
Tuesday, April 27, 12:46AM
I certainly don't think playing= killing.
I'm a druid, I could HARDLY think that, but there's exploring, questing,
more exploring, rping, questing, grouping, more exploring...
You don't have to be level 50 to explore and quest, or have good eq.
In fact, sometimes having good eq is detrimental... -chuckle-
There's a lot to this place, it's too bad Jean spends all his time
making posts and appending to boards to discover it.
As for hurting his feelings... too bad... really...
Most people would agree I'm pretty reasonable until someone gets
under my skin, somehow.
From: Mac
Tuesday, April 27, 12:48AM
spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam
spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam
spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam
Enough of the bloody quoting!!! You could have said everything
in one short append! ARRRRRRRRGHHHHH
From: Ton
Tuesday, April 27, 01:08AM
Jean there are people here that have made more than 10 characters,
levelled them to 50th, done whatever with them, and still don't feel they are
as qualified to criticise the system, that you seem to think you are
qualified to do, having played 100 hours. I can think of about 6
people off the top of my head with over 10,000 hours that have less
than half the ego you seem to. You are not always right, your ideas bear
little weight, and aren't going to be imped any faster because there
are more of them. Take you time, think things out, and put together your
dozens of lousy ideas, and try to squeeze out one good one. Don't just
post ideas on a whim, that aren't thought out, because they will be
treated accordingly. And for dogs sake, please stop that horrible
quoting crap!
Ton - as fed up as anyone is with Jean
From: Mac
Tuesday, April 27, 01:14AM
Ok, I've calmed down now.. Something you should know Jean,
there's been endless amounts of good ideas posted before you
came along and there'll be plenty more that will won't be
implemented no matter how good or even simple to change as
there's supposedly a huge To Do list already.
Perhaps after skill trees which is meant to be priority one
and after other high priority things are done, you may see
some of your suggestions implemented. Right now you're just
wasting your time. Issues such as guns/bows being useless
at 80 perc haven't even been looked at as far as I know.
I'm one that would agree you needn't have played a MUD for
a long time to see obvious flaws or areas needing improvement
but difficulty in levelling doesn't really fall into that
category. You probably would have come to the same conclusion
before the xp scale change as it was even harder to level
as a newbie then. You just wouldn't have known how easy
was to level with help.. (1 kill/level for about 30 levels).
Anyways.. you're just one of many who believes he or she
KNOWS how things should be. You won't change my mind on
how something should be just as I'm unlikely to change your
yours. Forget about even trying!
From: Urg
Tuesday, April 27, 06:17AM
just to make a point here.... I was the newbie from hell, I'd never
mudded before and had no idea what one even was.
I found out about them from a paper on internet addiction,
(-whap self-).
Jean you may not realise this, but it's more fun to explore when you
have crud equipment, no money and no idea, I'd died on every continent in
ancient before I was shown how to time trans, and I enjoyed it.
You don't have to be good at this thing to have fun, and believe it
or not helping someone who wants to get all the best eq and money,
who wants to be levelled without doing anything or trying it for
themselves is not high on my priority list. I like to help people
who TRY to help themselves, mebbe you should try and work it out
for yourself first before trying to get it changed.
- Urg, who never posts, yet was inspired by annoyance.
p.s the sheer amount of people you annoy may give you a hint as
to what people think of you
From: Deirdre
Tuesday, April 27, 08:45AM
Yeah, Jean, it's true, you've posted a lot of ideas.
A lot of impractical, unworkable, unfun ideas. They certainly
wouldn't improve this mud. At this point I think you should
just maybe download the DIKU code and start JeanMUD. It'd be
great--not eating makes you die, you have to have tools for
-everything- and you can level to 50 in one kill! Of course,
it'd have a playerbase of one, but that's another matter...
Here's an idea of my own: we should have a lynch command!
15 people get together and form a temporary clan called
The Posse. They use the "sheriff" command to elect a sheriff,
preferably someone corrupt. Then they have to name the person
they want to lynch with the "lynch set" command. If they can
find this person, and if this person's level 15 or under, they
can use the "lynch" command to delete the character. After that,
Sandra can come out and say "Don't do that again." The Posse
can show contrition by scuffling (command already imped!), and
everyone goes home.
In light of recent discussions, I think this idea should be
seriously looked at :P
I know who's first on my list! Who's with me, pardners?
Sheriff Deirdre!
From: Rufus
Tuesday, April 27, 09:09AM
Re: Jean and her 'many ideas':
Ideas are cheap. Very cheap. 'Nuff said.
-Ruf
From: Deirdre
Tuesday, April 27, 10:23AM
Go Ruf!
From: Ronnie
Tuesday, April 27, 07:00PM
What the hell is this? When did players start telling others to stop
mudding because they arnt well liked? Sure, the posts get spammy,
but its not half as bad as some of the stuff people do. A lot of
people criticize the mud's systems, but you still dont tell them to
go away. Whats your right to tell someone they shouldnt be mudding
because you dont like the way they write?
From: Jean
Tuesday, April 27, 08:29PM
in append 11, Mac writes:
Or so you think anyways. Proving it would be another
matter though.
From: Jean
Tuesday, April 27, 08:32PM
in append 12, Ton writes:
Again, were playing the game that the amount of hours
you play has a direct positive correlation with the
quality of ones critiques. Personally, I dont go for it,
though youre free to present your case that it is indeed
true. As Ive mentioned before, I think that even the
idea that the more time you spend on muds in general,
the more qualified you are to judge them has flaws.
What I think is the true qualifier is someone who can
hold their own in debate. You and others on here might
argue that I dont, but Ive certainly been keeping up a
lively discussion and I also know that not everyone
would agree with you.
Well, I like the seem word anyways.
agreed.
Or so you believe.
Quantity certainly isnt a hallmark of an idea being
imped, thats for sure :-p. I like to think my ideas are
also pretty good, but clearly there are those here who
dont think so. What I find rather amusing, however, is
how no one to date has yet defeated me in a debate.
Most of you may have more influence in getting your
ideas put into play, but that doesnt mean youre more
right then i am.
well, you certainly do want to insult today.
When youve been posting as much as i have, you
-never- post on a whim.
(rest of insults ommitted- note- check out the posting
thread for more on why i quote).
From: Jean
Tuesday, April 27, 08:49PM
in append 13, Mac writes:
I can live with that. I still want to add in my comments
now though- because priorities -can- be changed if
enough people agree that they should be.
Clearly thats a matter of opinion.
I didnt quite get what you said there, but I was told
that it was harder to level as a newbie alone but easier
to level as a newbie in a group- Seeing as its not that
hard for me to find a high level partner right now, I
think I could have done much better on a system like
that in terms of levelling. But I actually like the idea
that you get less xp for power levelling- makes more
sense, as one gets more experience in real life for doing
rather then just watching or perhaps adding a little bit
to a fight thats really being fought by a high level mob
and ones high level friend.
not quite. I think im right, ofcourse. Im open to points
that would show that im mistaken., however. So far
ive rebuffed nearly every attempt in that direction.
When its clear Im mistaken, I do back off of the idea-
case in point; some npher brought up the point that
most people were helpful with newbies here. Id heard
conflicting reports even from nphers, but I cant claim
that I -know- how helpful people are here at all times.
I can only bring up the 3 examples of newbies not
getting help that I saw.
Clearly I think its worth the effort, which is why i still
try- but youre free not to listen if you dont want to.
From: Jean
Tuesday, April 27, 09:51PM
in append 14, Urg writes:
Why the whap? In any case, I found out about them
through a former friend of mine- he didnt explain
much, mind you. He gave me a little money, showed me
where the leather shop was (i was a mage) and sent me
on my way. It took me a -long- time to figure the rest
out. But I did. Spent nearly 1000 hours doing it too. I
now know how muds work pretty well; And, as ive
said before, Ive come to the conclusion discussion is
the lifeblood of muds.
Been there, done that. I dont agree at all about the
crud equipment and no money, but i must admit that
areas used to hold a lot more wonder to me. Until I
realised how dangerous some of them could be... slowly,
that dulled my wish to explore. And back then, I didnt
know about discussion boards. When I found those and
realized their potential.. things changed quickly after
that. I realized that the quality of a mud really depends
on the freedom of discussion.
Thats ok- their are plenty of people who do. Once
newbies get themselves even a little established,
getting eq to max ones rent seems to be not much of a
problem. The rent limit -itself- seems to be the
problem in that area. And ofcourse, all that xping..
What some people think of me sure. Doesnt mean im
wrong though. And remember- prophets had a lot of
people disagreeing with them too. Not saying Im a
prophet, but maybe just a little ahead of my time on
some things.
From: Jean
Tuesday, April 27, 11:33PM
in append 10, Bronwyn writes:
clearly it doesnt.
Why couldnt druids think that?
True. Now if the xping element could just be made less
time consuming to get to 50..
Why, because you can lose it? Well, that risk is one Im
clearly prepared to take. But when youre level 50,
with good eq, exploring is a -lot- safer then when
youre just level 6 (even with good eq for that level).
Make levelling easier and people could explore in far
more comfort at a far earlier stage in time.
what exactly is wrong with discovering things in this
way? Personally, I think its the best way- atleast for
someone like me who enjoys a good discussion.. talking
to people like you.. youre quite intelligent bronwyn; i
saw that from the very first time i met you. It was you
that really anchored me on this mud. Ironically, its you
whos the most effective in ousting me voluntarily. yes,
you hurt me; i wouldnt have told you that if i didnt
like you; just trying to give you what you want- let me
put it this way- hurt me enough and im sure youll be
able to silence me, if only because ill be too depressed
to post anymore.
Yeah, well, youre not alone in this under my skin thing.
only thing is, while youre apparently just irritated, im
hurting.
From: Jean
Tuesday, April 27, 11:35PM
in append 15, Deirdre writes:
Clearly a matter of opinion on all counts.
Lol :-). Maybe quests to get to the next level anyways.
And even on here, not -everyone- minds the idea of
having to use extra tools for added realism; if that
process was automated, id think the unwantedness of
it would be even less.
I think things are a long way off from me starting my
own mud- for one, im no mud programmer as of yet.
But at some point in the future, perhaps. I wouldnt
even -consider- doing a mud if i didnt have players
besides me who were interested in playing it, so the
above wouldnt apply.
Great- rule by lynch; my, how weve progressed :-p.
From: Jean
Tuesday, April 27, 11:35PM
in append 16, Rufus writes:
bad ideas, sure. Good ideas, i dont think so.
p.s. youd think an imm would check on the gender of a character, especiall
From: Jean
Tuesday, April 27, 11:37PM
in append 17, Deirdre writes:
spoken like a true corrupt sheriff :-p.
From: Jean
Tuesday, April 27, 11:37PM
in append 18, Ronnie writes:
:-). As for criticism, what im ideally trying to do is
provide constructive criticism to improve this mud- im
not saying im always successful, im just saying what
im trying to do.
From: Embeth
Sunday, May 02, 08:49AM
mob mentality?
Sounds like the democracy and the democratic rights you seem so
fond of
Embeth
ps note I sign at the end, so you don't have to scroll up to see
who wrote it
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