Posted by Wuss on 04/24
Great way to increase item variety without having to add new
areas, but would like to know exactly what aspects of an item
will be varied -- acs, rent, +stat, -stat, and whether a new
-/+ can be introduced in the variation (oh yah, hp/hit/dam too).
Mmm. and align.
Also, it'd be a tad bit more helpful if there was a 'standard'
variety (the stats we've come to hate and love for years) to which
items can be modified to, let's say, when sold to a mob or something.
Preferrably, repop time on mobs that have both random gear and are
quest or teacher mobs should be upped, I can see a shortage on them
coming up...
Wuss
From: McDonald
Friday, April 23, 01:03AM
I once played a mud, where mobs only had their eq the
first time they were killed, though it was a bigger mud.
Since ppl will tend to get rid of eq that is a bad roll
Id think there could be an overflow of eq if the repops
were made too quick.
Oh and in response to earlier post about difficulty of
legend. I think this mud is only hard until you learn it
well, and its more this way than other stock type muds.
Theres no central location to learn skills and spells and
such and thats the main thing I think. Once you learn it
its extremely easy, compared to something like Duris.
On that mud you couldn't really get much xp at all solo
and leveling to say lvl 30 could easily take 300 hours
or so. With things like not seeing how much xp you get
for a kill, and not seeing how much you got to level
except for a desc similar to consider messages, and oh
yah losing levels when you die, if you had recently
leveled and hadn't got enough xp yet, which could
permanently lower your max hp, hehe. And everyone pkill
enabled with only some towns with mob guards to protect
you. Heck even the looters on legend don't take ALL
your eq.
Generally I wish Legend was more challenging, but I
think the problem isn't with difficulty but the xp
scale, which made it so that it you must mindlessly
kill low level mobs for hours and hours.
-end ramble
From: Rufus
Friday, April 23, 08:27AM
'But I would like to know exactly ...'
1) too bad =)
2) anything, it's up to the builder.
Intially (at least for friday) it will mainly be newbie-ish gear.
In modifying things, I strayed away from altering well-established
items in the game, though that philosophy might change in the
coming weeks.
As far as random gear on quest mobs and whatnot... I personally
tend to try and stay away from putting really great stat items
on quest mobs (obvious exceptions, but for the most part, common
quests, I tend to have less-than wonderful items on). This isn't
true of every builder, but it's something that's probably more
toward the exception than the norm.
Currently, I see no reason to alter many of the repop times on anything,
regardless of what I dump on them.
-Ruf
From: Rufus
Friday, April 23, 08:31AM
I will however tell you how it sorta works. Builders set up on
each object they wish to have random stats, some 'rules' for
how the item is made (50% chance of a 1 to 3 strength bonus,
30% chance of a 2-4 dex bonus) and then they set up compensation
rules (if the item exceeds X stats, compensate with negative
perception). they can also set it up where an item has a consistent
level of stats all the time (3 dex, 3 mind, 1-2 strength, then
compensate down to 5 overall with a negative spirit).
Those are only stats, too. Literally anything can be altered on
objects now (and I mean -everything-) so you might come across
items in the future that have literally thousands of combinations
of possible stats (including hp, mana, move, hitroll, damroll,
ac, parry bonus, etc). It calculates rent affects on the fly. The
builder of said item will set an initial value, and the rent is
then modified by the rules we use for determining rent as affected
by stats (if you have a +1 strength item, expect it to be 225
rent more than the same item without any strength bonus). The
'rules' which govern adding stats are also strictly followed
by the code, and they are minimums. The builder can however set
a default value of 1000 for an item that does nothing, so in its
+1 strength state, it would be 1225 rent. this allows builders
flexibility to determine rent based on factors other than just
the item stats (most noteably, difficulty in obtaining said
item).
-Ruf
From: Mac
Friday, April 23, 11:47AM
I was always keen on random eq since playing Diablo way back
but will it work the same here? With other such games you
don't need exact stats to make pre-requisites for skills
while maxing other stats. I can imagine it may be kinda
frustrating on Legend unless only rent and ac was random.
Consider this..
[AUCTION] Mac: cloak of midnight, 4 dex 3 perc -2 con!
Who's going to be interested? Very few as everyone's going
to need slightly different stats, only the plain fighters
after -spirit that don't need stats balanced so much will
be spending big.
But if it were just AC & rent..
[AUCTION] Mac: cloak of midnight (regular stats) -28 AC 1350 rent!
It would attract a lot of interest and would really get the
economy going. I mean even Dun eq could be worth a lot!
I guess weapons could also be slightly randomized, I just
don't think stats will work so well how Legend is at present.
From: Mac
Friday, April 23, 12:11PM
get map bag
Bleah, won't attempt to restart..
Anyways, I forgot to mention hp/man/mv hit and damroll are others
that could be randomized without the problems of equipping
with desired stats or limiting the demand on items.
I think that's plenty, worth the effort of implementing and
would work well..
From: Yi
Friday, April 23, 12:33PM
On the other hand, I've never yet had a character's stats work out
so perfectly that I couldn't have dropped a point or two from
a non-essential stat (32 perc as opposed to 30, whee) while
adding it to a more important stat. My holy grail since making
this character is something +7 con, -1 per -1 min, and who knows?
Maybe now I'll find one. Admitedly, you can only do pretty minor
fiddling, but it can't hurt, and might help.
From: Rufus
Friday, April 23, 01:13PM
Many items will likely not have random effects (I doubt I'll change
the cloak of midnight, for example). But I've often looked for an
item with 2 or 3 stats, but the only things that were available were
1 stat, or 5 stats, and the 5 stat one put me over rent. This isn't
going to solve -every- eq problem in the game. That's not its intention.
It's not going to miraculously change the 'if it's not 5 overall stats,
it's useless' misnomer that seems quite rampant (not so much now as
it used to be, but nonetheless...). What it will create is a less
predictable eq base, some 'filling in the holes' for objects that
don't currently exist at all, and allows us to expand the number
of stat-based eq things in the game without worrying about
coming into conflict with items that are already in the game.
It merely adds a random element, and a tool that builders can use.
-Ruf
From: Ruby
Friday, April 23, 03:38PM
I would 1st off like to say that i think this new code sounds "fun".
But I also want to point out one other thing. What i see people,
well ok what i see pkillers talking about nowadays is that
the mud is to luck based for skills and such.
With this random stat element you have to set back and thing.
Will this make the mud luck based for items as well?
A little luck playing role in the game is greate. We
it wouldn't be fun any other way. But there is suck
a thing as to much luck, as seen with WFW and tumble sometime.
So i would like to end with this. I think the randome idea is good
but also i don't want to see players killing the same
mob over and over and over again for a 1 stat change in an item
I mean lets face it there are alot of people that would spend
3 or so weeks try'n to get that 1 stat point
-hangs head- I
am one of them =P
Anyway i forgot what my point was... oh yeh,
don't make us sit around try'n to get the 1 point forever
It just takes the fun out of the game the same way
xp can at times -kills same mobs over and over again-
Well thats it,
Ruby
From: Rufus
Friday, April 23, 05:16PM
Okay, let me restate one more time...
NO I'M NOT CHANGING THE MAJORITY OF THE ITEMS IN THE GAME.
And I'm going to add something to this:
THIS IS NOT TAKING THE PLACE OF THE WAY WE CURRENTLY DO OBJECTS.
It's a random addition. If you feel that your stats rely on a single
+1 from an item that may or may not ever be generated, you're probably
going to be disappointed with a whole lot a mud has to offer in
general.
-Ruf
From: Wuss
Friday, April 23, 05:38PM
First off, I'm glad to hear that the eq thing is limited to newbie
eq for the time being. I for one stay waaaaaay clear of non-5 net
eq unless it's -spi or offers +hit/dam/hp etc that makes the -1 irrelevant
in comparison (this char has heaps of 4 net :p)
I was hoping more gear along the lines of 3 net or so with -6 spi
variations, gear that newbie fighter chars could really use,
or gear that fighter chars could consider using -- especially
combined with 100+ stats factoring into the game (for weaken, clumsy,
and idiocy, at the cost of having -912808150 spirit, perhaps).
Although totally random eq with thousands of variations sound neat,
I was wondering if there could be eq with a couple variations that
could be discerned by looking at them (a blue one as opposed to a silver,
a tarnished as opposed to a regular, etc), so that ppl won't be
'forced' to kill quest mobs per repop just to try every variation
of an eq (the rowan staff, for example, if its stats were random,
could be of some use -- at least for spam gear :p)
Wuss
From: Mac
Saturday, April 24, 12:21AM
Yeah, I wouldn't mind a few random 'stat' items if they were
distinguishable from others in some way.
Anyways, I still believe random AC, rent, hps, mana, mvs, hit & dam
could be great for the MUD and wouldn't require areas to be modified.
It could be done based on current items and merely adjust the
above mentioned properties +- 15% or whatever it may be depending
whether it's AC, +dam etc.
From: Adolfus
Saturday, April 24, 03:17AM
Just wanted to say: This is great, thanks for adding it. Its kinda
surprising that its going in. Hehe, now you can't say your work is
always unappreciated, cuz this is.
that it would only add to the enjoyment of the game, even if you
had to kill a mob several times to get what you wanted, as long
as any longstanding eq in the game wasn't changed then it could
only really be looked at as adding depth and adding something to do.
The best thing is that it will eventually anyway, add another little
notch in eq that only those that are really dedicated will be able
to get the best eq, whereas now sometimes it seems you see
newbies with serrateds and such.
Thanks imms.
From: Rufus
Saturday, April 24, 08:19AM
again, wuss, up to the builders =) They have functions to poll the
total stat pluses on an object in an act, total stat minuses on
an object, how much something is +str, or +whatever, and they can
change the descriptions on it as well.
Oh, not only that but a few weeks ago I installed random reset code,
so a mob may never load with the same 4 pieces of gear. (talk about
random, a mob who loads 4 of 32 pieces of gear, each one having
random stat bonuses... literally could change the way they fight!)
But builders will have the option of 'concealing' the bonuses with
items of same description. Again, in giving the builders as many
options as possible, I'm not going to limit them by saying 'random
stat objects need to have varying descriptions based on their
overall stat bonus'.
-Ruf
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