Posted by Poetry on 03/30
I just want to through my support to Ma, and others that complained
about the hit-tables being so in favor of people that are only a few
levels higher. I have fough fights with lower level hard-hitting
fighters, that landed most all their bashes, and specials, and managed
to jump out of the way of a lot of backstabs, and avoid my arrows, and
still died without much of a fight.
Maybe Im wrong, but it seems the the hittables were changed from the old
old system to keep people from warcrying the ticket seller at level 15
with 100 con, and getting a 9 round para and leveling off of one kill.
Since, 5 level 15 mobs give more experience than your average level 40-50
mob, I assure you that no one is going to try to power level. I dont
know if this is all the reason for the harsh hitable, but if it is, then
please consider making the hitables a little more forgiving, so that a
level 40, actually has a decent chance to kill a level 50.
Poetry Modele
From: Gaidal
Monday, March 29, 12:47PM
I wanna add my support here. These days almost everyone I fight has
a few levels on me... some as many as 10. It is frustrating for me
because the only damage I do is with my specials. I have quickly
attacked and hit 8 times and had my target take 0 damage. Doesn't quite
seem right to me. Not that Im gonna stop fighting or anything. Bring
it everyone!
From: Poetry
Monday, March 29, 12:53PM
Hm, Gaidal brought up a nice point that I didnt think about. I definately
think that its silly to get a message that you "hit 8 times" when
acutally you dont do any damage. It seems like you can just remove the
"You quickly attack and hit x times" etc line, cause it never seems to
give any accurate information. All it does is spam, and people get
the damage message from the decimate, obliterate, etc line. Im sure that
all the complicated rolls for parry, armor, hittables, etc, make it hard
to have one line that says how many attacks hit, but getting a message
that you hit in all 8 attacks, when you actually didnt hit at all is not
good fight code.
Poetry Modele
From: Wuss
Monday, March 29, 03:15PM
You just 'hit' armor... and the attack how many times thing should
be able to be removed as an option, not as a whole -- newbies gauge
their progress with that line, more often than not.
As far as hit tables go, it's simply dumb to have level matter that
much when the pk range is so wide. Take a look at the log vs Dusk
on McD's site, there are 3 rounds in which I did 0 damage, and that
was with 39 or so hitroll.
-Wuss
From: Ea!
Monday, March 29, 05:51PM
What you're seeing when it looks like you hit and you didn't do
any damage is hits that hit but are blocked by your opponent's
armor.
These qualify as a hit in the count as they look to the attacker
like hits.
-Ea!
From: Ton
Monday, March 29, 07:34PM
I don't think the conflict in the hit message vs. the damage message
is a big deal, but certainly the hit table is the main point of this
thread. I suppose I can see why it is as it is now for mobkill. Killing
a same level mob shouldn't be a walk in the park, and killing a mob 10
levels higher that you, should be very difficult in most cases. But IMHO,
this doesn't really apply as much to pkill as it does to mobkill. Fighting
someone 10 levels lower than you right now, is all but a guarenteed win
for the higher level character, even if they have bad luck, and the lower
level character has good luck in the particular fight. Maybe the hit table
could be modified so that a 10 level difference in pkill, only penalized
the lower level character half of what it does now.
Ton
From: Maus
Sunday, March 28, 07:21PM
This really only applies to pkill. As far as killing mobs go,
maybe mobs that con as a perfect match SHOULD BE a perfect match,
but face it, right now they're not by a long shot. If my chars
stuck to levelling off mobs that conned as a perfect match, well,
it'd take a lot longer than it does now. Right now, a ten or
fifteen level difference between character and mob usually doesn't
make a bit of a difference, unless the mob is unusually tough for its
level (whether it has ungodly hp, or nasty specials, or tons of attacks
or whatever). Which is why I'm sort of puzzled why the hit table
seems to make so much more of a difference in pkill. Is it because
pc's have a lower ac than most mobs, or something? Because I can't
ever recall hitting all of my attacks against a mob and doing no
damage, whereas in pk it's actually rather frequent.
I'm not sure if separating the code between pk/non-pk is the way
to go, but something should be done. Is there any way to adjust
the hit table code in general and still have mobs be somewhat of
a challenge while not making pkill fights between chars with
extreme level differences a forgone conclusion?
Maus Metzger
From: Wuss
Sunday, March 28, 08:18PM
As far as mobkill is concerned, the only reason players level
as fast as they do with the current hit table is that while regular
attacks are fairly underpowered, skills are highly overpowered.
Backstab, for example, with a heavy dagger can seriously speed
up levelling process even against mobs that con as death. It
isn't uncommon to find lvl 2 chars kick/fleeing mobs that con
has death to them, simply because skills are comparatively
overpowered -- with backstab and kick, you can hit for 0s and
you are still fine.
If we're arguing mobs being too easy, it's not really the hittable
we should fool with, but the way skills do damage. It's pretty
From: Maus
Sunday, March 28, 08:55PM
Erm, yeah, Wuss, I agree. I thought that was sorta the logical
conclusion of my argument. Hit tables make comparatively little
difference vs. mobs, but a comparatively large difference vs.
players. The difference between mobs and players, discounting
intelligence, is skills--players have them, mobs don't. Which
is why a lvl 40 mob with a nasty special is going to be tougher
than a generic lvl 50 mob--it simulates the player's ability to
use skills.
Maus.
From: Wuss
Sunday, March 28, 11:17PM
mmm. lost link.
anyway, what i meant to say was that hittable should be adjusted
so that it doesn't take into account levels as much, but instead
give skills a look.
so instead of making separate hittables, like maus seems to
be suggesting, just make one that doesn't take into account
lvl diff as much, but instead revamp skills a bit -- yeah yeah,
skill trees again -- or just make more mobs more likely to
use skills. A mob that doesnt skill is, regardless of how hard
it hits and how much hps it is, never really a challenge (you
can always plan against them too predictably) whereas those
savannah mobs can always be a bit deadlier the next time you
fight them.
oh yeah, and if possible, make it so that they actually friggin
skill instead of 'acting' cuz acts are just downright buggy -- they
go off while the mob's stunned, entranced, dead, and not in the
room depending on the timing of the killing blow.
-Wuss
From: Bryn
Monday, March 29, 11:53PM
It's especially nasty with strength chars. Sometimes I can't hit
a bloody thing.
Bryn.
From: Ton
Tuesday, March 30, 11:44AM
Well, thats sort of the idea behind strength fighters Bryn, hits hard, but
has trouble landing.
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