Posted by Pop on 03/08
I would really appreciate them either being turned off
or being made illegal by the imms if that doesn't work.
They're annoying as hell, they spam my screen, after the
100th time I see the same one it isn't cute or funny or
whatever the hell it is supposed to be. I'd appreciate
those that gree with me to append this message with a simple
I agree with Pop at the very least if you do agree. Maybe
something will change, who knows?
From: Ronnie
Monday, March 01, 07:21PM
Right, after the 10th time any trigger gets boring. The only one
ive ever seen that didnt grate on me by the second death was
Unfrozen's scoreboard. The same triggers over and over again is
nothing but a spammy eyesore
From: Mo
Monday, March 01, 08:01PM
They are annoying as hell, and seriously what purpose do they
serve? If they were truly congratulory or whatever, that's okay,
but mostly it's a pitiful excuse to get their "RP" known, AT BEST<
and most of the time it's not even that, they just want to get
their name on channels as often as possible without meaning any
of the things that gets printed across my screen.
If you want to rp, that's fine, type up something different and
IC all the time -- trigs only make you look like you're rp'ing a
bot.
Which, in my opinion, ppl succeed in doing.
Mo!
From: Dulcimer
Monday, March 01, 08:22PM
Grr, the mud keeps eating my appends. Anyway, -agree Pop-.
From: Papercut
Monday, March 01, 09:31PM
I agree with pop too. ;) :p
From: Zeppelin
Monday, March 01, 09:42PM
-nod Pop-
From: Adolfus
Monday, March 01, 09:57PM
Agree Pop. This peeves me also, if you don't have the energy
to congratulate someone on info, don't use triggers for it.
They are annoying, and are generic spam. Anything spontaneous
cool, trigger bad!
From: Conspiracy
Monday, March 01, 10:25PM
in all honesty, info is for information, and morts should not be allowed
to speak on it to begin with. that's what chat is for. so my suggestion wo
we make morts not able to use it, and simply use it for information and an
(trivia starting in 15 minutes, etc..)
it's my opinion, you don't have to agree with it, but death to you if
you don't!
The man, The myth, The.....bah, whatever, Conspiracy.
From: Ishmael
Monday, March 01, 11:18PM
I agree with Pop.
From: Ma
Monday, March 01, 11:57PM
-agrees-
From: Traithe
Tuesday, March 02, 03:17AM
Nope, don't agree at all
From: Davien
Tuesday, March 02, 03:18AM
OK, I have one of these triggers, so I guess I represent the other
side. I am the only one of my alts that use these triggers and I
don't subscribe to the theory that it is cheap RP. And seeing the
bulk of appenders are PK-enabled, maoning about 'cheap' infos is
almost the height of hipocrasy after the things I see almost every
day on channels from pkers.
My trigger is there to say well done to someone who has put the
effort into getting to that next level. I know when I started here
I actually appreciated those triggers and was a little hurt when I
made a level and no one noticed. I also note that the people moaning
can hardly be called new - ask yourself if you would appreciate it
if you had just got here, it is at least some acknowledgement of the
effort. OK, I could type it out each time I see an info, but why
should I? I am only human and I do miss some when I am spammed. To
those people it is almost an insult when I miss them out, yet congratulate
others.
The other thing that I see hasn't been mentioned, is the fact that
you want to impose your view of things on other people by making
them illegal. That is against the rule that says 'you may not infringe
on the enjoyment of others'.
If I want to set a trigger, then its because I enjoy it, and so
your complaint is lessening my enjoyment. I know you will immeadiatly
say that my trigger is infringing on yours, and if that is the case
then I suggest you turn the channels in question off. While I am
rambling, this whole thread seems an attempt to get 'cheap publicity'
Its a game, get on with the game, stop moaning about things that
really aren't your concern.
Davien Holyoake who thinks that maybe we need an adultcheck on players
just to make sure they are responsible enough to play here! Append
to that!
From: Danar
Tuesday, March 02, 03:33AM
See, Davien, I like having the channel on, because when a friend of mine
dies or levels (since I know too many pkillers it's usually the former), I
want to be able to respond. sfun.
Besides which, your argument's kinda specious, no? It's a discussion
board, after all. What exactly would we be posting that wasn't in some
wise imposing our view of things which is gonna infringe on the enjoyment
of others pretty much no matter what you say?
Now, I have no problem with triggers qua triggers. (wow, I used the word
qua ) My real problem is that, because my computer is
running impressively slowly, the screenful of meaningless, six-colored,
pseudo-personalized level spam really REALLY infringes on my ability to
enjoy the game, since whee, I lose link.
Unfortunately for my argument, there are some triggers I like...ever since
I became part of Sandra's equipment, my primary motivation on Legend has
been to get into Strad's level trigger, after all. :P But that loss would
be swallowed up in the general gain.
I just think, if you're gonna respond to someone's level or death, it
should be someone you know. It's a very impressive person who has the
time and energy to be genuinely happy for everybody who levels in an
average session.
the impressively long-winded Danar ;P
From: Davien
Tuesday, March 02, 03:47AM
Actually I am genuinely happy for almost everyone who levels. There
are a few people that I would rather see lose a few levels and the
only thing that makes in better is that they might get into the range
to start dying lots. But thats just me, and I guess those people have
friends, who I also want to add to that list.
I agree that some of the triggers I have seen recently are a bit
bright, but thats up to the people who set them. Complain to those
people, not me who has only a single colour. Add to that mine basically
says congratulations in latin, and I don't see what everyone is
moaning about. For what its worth, yes, I get annoyed by them when
I am lagged, and I dont see you have cause for complaint seeing I
am in a country that takes more hops than almost any other on the
planet to recieve a message. I don't have a fast modem, nor as fast
From: Ma
Tuesday, March 02, 05:26AM
You gotta be a bit strange to feel anything when someone congrats
you with a trigger. I'd prefer to see who died or levelled without
having to scrollback cos of the spam. If not made illegal, it
could be a config option "display spam on info".
From: Mo
Tuesday, March 02, 05:45AM
I don't see how you can justify triggers being a part of your
rp when all you need to do is come up with something different
everytime somebody levels.
We're not asking anyone to stop congratulating or mourning gains
and losses, just that it'd be done in a human way so that we don't
get sick of the exact same response every single god damned time.
If you want to rp, put some effort in it, and actually TYPE something.
I could probably script a bot that rp'd better than anyone if triggers
made you a better rper.
Mo!
From: Oxalis
Tuesday, March 02, 07:22AM
Just a few thoughts.
I'm not a great fan of level/death triggers myself, but there
are one or two that I like. I suggest a better option than making
them illegal would either be a config to see nothing but the level/
death info, or an option to gag people on channels so you can gag
those you find annoying.
I also support the point somebody made about hypocrisy somewhere
in the thread. Most of those screaming for triggers to be made
illegal are the first to loudly assert their right to use features
of the game themselves in any way they choose and demanding that
anyone who doesn't like it gets out of their way. Having color on
and channels on is optional, so aren't you responsible for everything
that happens to you as a consequence?
Of course that doesn't mean you can't complain, but many of those
complaining tent to be very hostile whenever any restriction to their
own behavior is adovocated.
Ox
From: Dulcimer
Tuesday, March 02, 08:21AM
Grrr, the mud keeps eating all of my appends. Bleh. Ok, let's try
whos
this again.
I'd like to address something that Oxalis, and to some level Davien,
brought up. In his post, Oxalis stated "Having color on and channels
on is optional, so aren't you responsible for everything that happens
to you as a consequence?"
As of today, my characters have been verbally warned once or twice by
different imms for setting off people's info triggers. Things like,
"[Info] Dulcimer: [Info]: Bleh killed by Blah." The people who's triggers
I've set off have gone so far as to threaten to report me with harassment.
Now, my point is, having triggers is optional, so aren't the people that
have them responsible for everything that happens to them as a
consequence? To my mind, info triggers are very similar to bot scripts
like Riptide's. They remove control of your character from your hands,
and that's a potentially dangerous thing. For example, if I was just a
little bit meaner than I am, I could have easily made people's triggers
spout curses out on info. Yeah, I would get at least a warning for it,
but I also believe the person who's trigger it is should get warned too,
in a situation like that. It's exactly like Riptide's case. He surely
didn't intend to interfere in pk, but by setting up triggers, which remove
control of his character from him, he made himself liable.
I'm not sure if info triggers should be made illegal. There are a
few I've seen that I've liked just fine, or at least haven't minded.
But perhaps a few guidelines could be introduced, for example:
1) No more than one line.
2) No more than one color.
3) NOT ALL IN CAPS.
4) Something else which I can't think of right now.
Dulcie.
From: Dulcimer
Tuesday, March 02, 08:51AM
Cool, the only time one of my triggers has ever gone off in a post,
and it's this one. -mutter-
At least it wasn't spammy!
From: Pop
Tuesday, March 02, 09:57AM
You guys are missing my point. The only good idea I saw
was being able to configure info to only see deaths and levels
The triggers are annoying, they spam me so I can't see who died
without backscrolling, they are the same damn thing every time!
And when a dis run occurs or a SL or something that invovles
mass death you can't even see your screen because of all the
damn repeate messages flying by. I don't like it, and if you
all can't see why they might be so and turn them off I think
that something should be done so the rest of us don't have to
put up with something that is so absolutely stupid. ALL
triggers on public channels should go. color, no-color I don't
care...get them off the PUBLIC channels. Stick a trigger that
echos to your room and those that are in it or even a yell trigger,
but that would be annoying too I think. I'm not pk, I'm a pissed
off mud-citizen who wants to see some changes with this obvious
problem.
-POP
From: Skar
Tuesday, March 02, 10:16AM
I also agree that an option to ignore player messages on the info channel
would be a good feature.
And, as an aside, unless your trigger has a delay built in to it, I would
warrant that, nine times out of ten, the person who just died won't even
see it.
From: LadyAce
Tuesday, March 02, 10:51AM
I'm hoping to make some distinctions on this subject, which the
discussion seems to be grouping together...
Some people have triggers, some people have aliases, some people
type stuff out. I myself prefer aliases and typing stuff out,
particularly since triggers always go off before the dead person
re-enters the game, and also because of the obvious lack of
sentiment a trigger contains. On the other hand, I'm concerned by
the attitude that "you can't seriously be excited that people
you don't know have levelled" or that people should only respond
to their friends. I think it's perfectly valid to be happy when
strangers succeed, from a community perspective it's quite healthy.
As for triggers, I don't like them. I particularly don't like long
ones, ones that are easily abused, ones which fire multiple times
for multiple deaths, etc. But then again, there are lots of things
that I don't like. I would much prefer to see this discussion address
the problem as one of ettiquette, rather than as one that immortals
should make rules about. I think posting opinions here is a great
approach to that, the list of "rules" that (Dulcimer?) posted are
also a good start -- helping people who won't remove their triggers,
to at least fix their triggers, is another good step.
Don't misconstrue this as "Immorts hate all triggers" or anything -- I
play here as well as imm here, and have been slightly annoyed in both
bodies. But I'm not about to go handing out warnings because someone
made a trigger and used color in it.
Just some thoughts...
LadyAce
From: Zeppelin
Tuesday, March 02, 03:28PM
A few ppl support having triggers (I assume those who do it).
Well, here's some more of what -I- personally think:
If I die or level, and I see your trigger --> IT MEANS NOTHING TO ME.
If you do not have the time to say something yourself --> DONT BOTHER.
If you think your trigger is funny once --> IT IS NOT THE 1000th TIME.
Now, there are some triggers that are smart and neat and thats fine, but
anything that can be triggered can be typed in. What, you are too lazy to
type in your congrats and/or mournings? Gee, how thoughtful of you!
For now I think I will skip the folks who sit ooc/afk and have triggers
since I would feel the need to say mean things about that.
Zep
From: Ea!
Tuesday, March 02, 05:55PM
Just as a personal note: when I was a newbie, people congratulating me on
Info for going up a level was a great feeling, even if I didn't know
them.
I think it'd be a pity to discourage people from congratulating
others on their acomplishments.
(I know that this doesn't address most people's complaints about triggers,
etc., but I think it's important to remember.)
-Ea!
From: Vandervecken
Tuesday, March 02, 06:42PM
I have seen the light! Long before Pop's post, the proflifigation of
info triggers began to annoy me too, and I was a contributor. So I gagged
the player-generated info messages. Later I'm thinking to myself, "Vandy,
here you are gagging other folks info spam, all the while continuing your
own." So I've decided to turn off my info triggers.
Now, I may from time to time fire off an alias -- pesky rheumatism won't
let me type something in in a timely fashion -- but rest assured when I
do so its a sincere expression of my congratulations or condolences.
Captain Janke van der Vecken, Proprietor
Flying Dutchman Imports, London
From: Rictor
Tuesday, March 02, 06:59PM
I must say that wayyy back in the day when I was a newbie I used to
get no cheers and that actually made me feel pretty bad :( then I
started getting some cheers and that made me feel good, then some
of those cheers I noticed would ALWAYS happen no matter WHO it was
regardless, so they didnt make me feel very good, if you take the
time to say Congratulations in a nifty color for someone that does
make you feel special, but when you see it over and over again and
you sorta stop 'counting' it.
Just some thoughts, I think triggers are pointless
Sir Rictor Belmont
From: Mo
Tuesday, March 02, 09:57PM
You know what. if you want to use triggers, have it go via tells,
and not on channels. If you are sincere in congratulating, you don't
have to have the whole world see that you are indeed congratulating
the person. And ppl who are sick of your trigs will gag you.
Mo!
From: Celeste
Tuesday, March 02, 11:23PM
Kay, I don't use triggers, and I rarely use macros anymore.
Most of my congrats ARE typed out, even if the message appears to be the
same.
On the other hand, I don't congrat much at all anymore, and usually
half of those ARE via tell.
Hmm, guess my point is even if the message -does- seem similar it may not
neccessarily be a trigger.
Celeste de Rais
From: Dulcimer
Wednesday, March 03, 08:55PM
It's pretty obvious when someone types out congrats/condolences as
opposed to having a trigger set up, even if they type the same think
all the time.
For my part, on the question of sincerity, my feelings run thus:
the character who's info triggers bother me the most is afk/oow
in ooc 90% of the time. How can that possibly be sincere?
On a side note, I actually don't have problems with people setting
up macros to congratulate/express sympathy on info. At least you then
have to think about hitting the hotkey to make the macro run, as opposed
to just sitting afk and letting your client congratulate people for you.
I dunno, something about info triggers sorta creeps me out. It's like
having your alarm clock wish you happy birthday, or something.
Dulcie.
From: Shine
Monday, March 08, 06:51AM
it is okay when someone is congratulating. But if someone is ooc+afk
15 hours anis congratulating, it sucks.
Btw I don't understand why ppl are afk several hours.
What they can get from it?
Shine!
| 