Posted by Mo on 03/05
Where are we on this atm? Did housing just bulldoze over this
and never had it recovered? Granted xp isn't all that hard, but
I'd really much rather PK to retire than Mobkill to retire :p
Seriously tho, think we had a lot of the kinks worked out (other
than the actual coding) but never heard feedback.
Mo!
From: Poetry
Wednesday, February 24, 12:21PM
Yes, I think Mo's point idea is excellent! I would like to get
some imm feedback too:). There is definately something silly with
making the unclanning requirement have nothing to do with pkill.
And it makes pkillers so reluctant to enter pkill in the first place,
cause its so hard to get out. Maybe make RP, have a factor in the
point system, so that, as Sandra warned, the pkill world doesnt
degenerate into crazy random killing for points accumilation. Although,
I must say, that wouldnt be too bad either, seeing as right now, people
are afraid to leave their houses and face kill-starved hunters like
myself (and a couple more!). Consider that maybe the points system will
actually quench the thirst for random pkill, and create a better pkill
environment... allowing hunters to get there fill, and finally relax and
stop typing "who" every minute, well I have a "who" event that just types
it every 30 seconds and triggers on pkiller's names in the list and sends
an alarm through the speakers that drags me away from my recording studio,
but thats another story:)
Anyway, there is definately a problem in entering and exiting pkill.
I dont know how to fix it, but its really making the whole thing drag,
and would benefit from some kind of incentive based rp whatever you name
it solution.
Poetry Modele
From: Sandra
Wednesday, February 24, 03:43PM
Admittedly, this is something that i haven't though much on recently
with the list of other things I have to get done. I can't speak
for Ea or the rest of the staff though, but for me, this would be
something doable at a later date, once we've got our current
projects in line.
-Sandra
From: Bryn
Friday, February 26, 05:06PM
Bryn like. Bryn too lazy to get 50 million xp. -thud-
From: LadyAce
Thursday, March 04, 04:00PM
Hi all --
I talked with Ea some about this, and this is what the two of us came
up with.
1 -- We don't have a way to keep people from using multi to stack up
lots of points.
2 -- Any pk points system -would not- make it easier or shorter to unclan
-- Sandra is happy with the difficulty/time involved right now, and the
addition of a "points" system would not ease that burden.
3 -- The environment. This code would encourage people to pick on the
easy kills i.e. weaker/lower level/less experienced pkillers, and to do
so repeatedly. And these "easy kills" are in fact the same people who are
the future of the pk scene. Driving them out is not a good plan.
At any rate, I think we came up with more problems than this -- but this
is what's at the top of my head right now. It's an interesting idea, and
it does make more sense to have pk-retirement have more to do with being
a pk'er, but there are a number of unsurmountable flaws. Stacks of immorta
er, immortal-devised proposals end up in the exact same category, so
please don't think that we're disliking it because it came from mortals.
-LadyAce
From: Mo
Thursday, March 04, 08:17PM
1. There is no way to stop ppl from multi'ing to get xp either
atm. The point's aren't an award great enough, as is xp, to
multi somebody. As i recall, each point is worth roughly 1k xp
in terms of reaching unclanning goal -- would you multi sombody
for 1k xp and risk getting multi'd?
2. It is not the matter of difficulty/time that the point system
was brought up. It would not change difficulty/time as much as
it would actually give ppl some reason to pk instead of mobkilling
everyday to keep up. The fact is that to unclan, you will be
spending tons of time regardless of this system. The reason this
is being brought up is that it rewards people who are have been
active in pk, be it on the losing side or the winning side,
whereas the current system gives absolutely nothing to losers.
3. Again, ppl pick/attack on weaker players as it is, since it
is less risk to them of losing xp. Therefore, ppl who consider
themselves weaker try to run, which hampers their fighting capabilities
greatly, reinforcing their prejudgement that they are weaker.
With a point system, there's less reason to run, and it can actually
be a "learning experience" even if you die while choosing to stand
your ground. In short, by motivating ppl to stand up and fight,
it will actually get their skills levels up to par much quicker.
To sum it up, this point system isn't being suggested to greatly
reduce the burden of pkers who want to unclan -- at the moment, a
willing pker can unclan very easily in at most 300 hrs, and for
most of the ppl who pk it will take much shorter than that (that is,
300 hrs after deciding they should unclan).
However, if one has unclanning in mind, never are they free of
the thought of mobkilling and xp, and generally creates an atmosphere
where people become stingy with their xps. Point system would
alleviate it somewhat, not by rewarding them with more than what
they lost, but by giving them points of xp that cannot be taken
away.
It doesn't take a hell of a long time to hold your own in pk. Just
a matter of plunging. Point systems and any other method that at
least gives the illusion of being rewarded just for participating
will increase pk participation and general skill level. Without
a good percentage of folks being competitive, the mud can be easily
'controlled' by a small group of ppl who know what they are doing,
and who will try to extend their control by simply scaring ppl offline
or by not giving ppl a chance to practice (wolfpacks).
Above all, it would help pk become more colorful, with persistence
paying off eventually even if you lose all the time and simply
make up xp loss (sometimes a hard task for ppl who can't afford to
be online lots).
Mo!
From: LadyAce
Friday, March 05, 09:00AM
You say that it wouldn't increase multi/picking-on -- the difference
would be the fact that these points would not be at risk. So why not
multi someone a few times, jump a little more ruthlessly, if no real
payback is possible? At least with a current multi or attack under
questionable circumstances, your gains are still at risk from the friends
of the victim, if not the victim him/her self.
And as for exp from pk, I don't think you should get any for multi, anyway
but I'm not sure that's very easy to code.
I respect and agree with the underlying idea of encouraging people to
be more active in pkill, and I'd like to see the system made to work,
but the people who I think we want to encourage to take more risks are
not the established "winners" or extremely aggressive types, but rather
the less-experienced and less-aggressive types. Creating a system which
gives any increased benefit, however slight, to the people who are already
strong, will be ultimately counter-productive.
-LA
From: Mo
Friday, March 05, 02:10PM
These points are not at risk, sure. That is true for the aggressor
as well. But the gaming experience was never centered around xp
or such, always on reputation and the reactions from others
upon seeing you online.
I don't know how many times i have to point this out, but atm,
there are not too many people here, if any, that get away with
multi'ing somebody without anyone deciding to do something
about it. Consider the case of arkansau, who wasn't even
in range for the most 'established' pkers. He didn't get
away with his multi, and those that have the reputation of
multi'ing can't quite log online without checking the scene
without their unclanneds. How often do you see Dusk online
and active while none of his buddies are online or if there
are anyone that is even slightly competent in pk?
The additional motivation this might give established pkers
is more than negligible. I can tell you now that points or
no points, I'll be as 'established' and 'aggressive' as
i ever was, and it's hard to be "more" aggressive than I
am now -- and for most of us pkers.
Mo!
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