Posted by Mo on 01/25
More than availability, rent on all those potions and vials and
herbs should be reduced. At 500 rent a pop, it's waaaaaaaaay unfair
for fighter chars if they can't rent effects out -- and obviously
disorient is going to be really really really powerful once that
goes in.
I don't think I have had too much trouble in PK simply because
my target could rent off effects (I actually relied on that effect
when getting rid of other ppl's see-invis, det. hid, det. ill and
what not) yet i have had fighter chars who's had IMMENSE problems
cuz he COULDN'T rent off effects -- due to bind, or having been
placed overrent while blind (since you couldn't drop items while
blind a while ago) and generally getting caught in areas with
no exits (bog)
Unless we plan to add quite a few saving rolls for each
effect (which, i think, if we do it somewhat rationally,
would overpower con) or sprinkle the mud with mobs that
can cure poison (close to every inn, just about) this would
be a problem for newbies.
Also, there are way too many spells even the caster cannot
control (sneak, detect hidden, etc) that prevent entry to
OOC -- i usually just rent it out in my impatience rather
than waiting 6-12 ticks to have it cleared, etc.
Mmm. certain plants should be made available over-the-counter
in more numerous places and sprinkled over the mud with as much
abundancy as angelicas, too.
I think instituting such a code change would be opening
a Pandora's box in a world where we haven't even seen the
hope in the dozen other boxes we've already openened.
Mo!
From: Adolfus
Wednesday, January 20, 11:32PM
Hrm was this announced over chat? Missed the original posting.
I like affects saving over rent. Id also like to see !norent
versions of each potion sold also, that would keep one
from hoarding them up, but also allow one to carry as many
as they needed. And I think its easy to rationalize, since
potions should be kept out of cold hot areas etc.
I wouldnt necessarily say make all potions !norent, the
rent could be lowered, while adding a special potion container,
that keeps them from decaying. A little no update potion
container, all potions that are rentable could be made timed
to justify lowered rent cost. Yah if you was blind you
could not get them out of the container. Youd just have
to keep one out, and keep the others from going bad in
the box, and if you got blinded quaff and get another out
etc.
Im big on the idea, of being able to carry as many potions
as I like, but don't like being overrent with them.
As for not being able to go ooc, with spell effects.
How about a command that clears spell affects, if there
in your power to begin with. Ie fighters coudlnt clear
any spells, mages could only clear the ones the can cast
and noone can clear something like blind. I figure no
mana cost needed. You could have a clearall, and clear
individual spell affects. The basing it on whether you c
can cast them on self is just an idea, it could be made
that anyone could clear any beneficial spell affects.
Ie just the stuff keeping them from ooc.
From: Rufus
Thursday, January 21, 01:14AM
Speaking of potions, I reworked the rent spec on spells and scrolls
just last week, so you will likely see a reduction in their rent
cost. However, now that we can set price independant from rent cost,
expect them to be around the same amount of gold.
As far as affects saving over rent, there will be many changes
that go into the system before we install that... they won't
blanket save over rent, they will likely decay over rent as well
(that is, if you rent out for 5 ticks and you had 8 ticks left
on a spell, when you came back it would have only 3 ticks left).
None of this, however, is written in stone. The code to support
such is already in but we wanted ways of dealing with things such
as newbies and poison like you mention. Accompanying this will
likely be regeneration over renting as well.
Again, nothing set in stone, there are still many logistics to be
worked out with it before it sees the light of day.
-Ruf
From: Rufus
Thursday, January 21, 01:28AM
heh, and maybe I should read the welcome board occassionally, I'm
sure many of the things I mentioned will be addressed in the Q&A.
-Ruf
From: Fright
Thursday, January 21, 08:45AM
Make a apothekar type character in every town that sells potions
and herbs 24 hours a day, with low cost for something like a
cure poison potion, and higher for things like cure blind
and maybe even cure critical (for even more cash)
Having these timed wouldn't hurt either. And most hometowns
have someone that deals in this type of thing allready, they could
simply have their lists expanded. (douban, Donnegal, apotheker, etc)
Fright
From: LadyAce
Thursday, January 21, 09:56AM
Affects saving over renting will be discussed at the Q & A which
Rufus alluded to. I hope that the session will answer your concerns,
or if you cannot attend, that your concerns will be answered by the
publishing of the transcript in the LT.
-LadyAce
From: Adolfus
Thursday, January 21, 11:15AM
I really like regen, and decay while rented. Personally I find
other things to do while, my char is sleeping for heal, but it
would be nice for those that don't have the luxury of staying
connected all the time, to be set to sleeping during the
period they are rented.
From: Splerk
Thursday, January 21, 03:38PM
-likes the idea of sleeping during renting, since you rent a room
for the night-
-thinks however this will be strange in pkill, penalizing people that
wait in the inn for the other person to log back in-
Splerk!
From: Mo
Thursday, January 21, 04:11PM
Saving effects, decay and healing over rented would deal another
heavy blow to healers. Why?
Me, for example, have roughly 4-5 unclanned chars i can toy with
at any given moment, maybe more, maybe less, depending on the
circumstances. I could mobkill, and instead of healing by
sleeping or getting a healer, i'd rent and play another char,
and repeat the process til the first char is fully healed.
In pk, if i knew that ticks were going to go off while rented,
i could make a non-healing char and rent, then log an unclanned
to measure ticks (so that i'll be full again) then log back.
A safe room of safe rooms, if that were to work.
Not to mention timed eq. Now ppl with timed eq will be forced to
play at least once in a while, logging only to preserve their eq.
And if we don't make it decay, instead of healing and regenning
while the timer ticks down, they could simply rent.
One last thing with that would also be things like crashes. I
have no idea how often those progress will be saved (healing while
rented) but unless you save it every tick (not to mention keeping
track of everyone that is rented) could be at least somewhat
renty, or, if not, a crash could probably hinder progress made.
Mo!
From: Adolfus
Thursday, January 21, 04:28PM
You could do it like going afk, you dont void till your fully
healed. You tick till you hit this voidpoint then your rented like
normal, that way, timed items would only lose a few ticks.
As for Mo's post, I dont see any of that as particular drawbacks.
I have a pure fighter, and I sleep to heal every time. Since
there is a norecall safe room, it wouldnt change much, in that
respect. Hell anyone could do this now, if unclanned, just make
a trigger to sleep, then when you void, wake and rent.
These changes dont strike me as anything to get excited about.
Though they would be cool.
From: Mo
Thursday, January 21, 04:40PM
it's not the fact that you simply sleep to heal, but you can
change chars while doing so as well.
as a clanned, that means you can heal while seeing what the atmoshpere
is like as an unclanned, roaming around -- hell, some do this even now,
except that their pker doesn't get healed. I can see a certain player
simply renting, playing their alts til he figures his pker is healed,
then entering the game.
it's pretty darn silly as it is that pkers can get away so easily (sans
elbow) and probably why healer-pkers are really doing much better than
they should -- barring lag or scrappage of key items, anyone that wants
to run can pretty much run.
another thing is that cause pkers are most vulnerable when struck righ
after they rent (they are sans their prep spells) and this change would
make them more competitive -- especially if creates don't get their spells
extended past rent, such as demons (if those get extended, esp with them
staying around permanently -- they should have a code added where they'll
randomly stand up and wander around if enough time passes them to
void).
Also, instead of pkers complaining that somebody ran away to heal, there'l
be innumerable amounts of pkers who will simply rent at dying to prevent t
their death. as frustrating as it is not to get a killing blow sometimes,
this would make it a lot more frustrating.
What is the benefit of having these effects save over rent? They get
rid of the fighter's ability to instantly rid spells while providing
them with a very easy to reach safe room -- no recall, no nothing.
Housing would be moot under this case, who needs a safe house when
anyone (pk) could simply rent and heal?
If we have it charge per amount it heals, then it'd be unfair to folk
who had to leave on immediate notice, too.
In general, i see very little benefit compared to the ludicrous amount
of bad effects it would bring (mostly in pk, but marginally to healers
as well).
Mo!
From: Bryn
Thursday, January 21, 10:52PM
I could see this seriously damaging straight fighters in pkill.
First off, not everyone has the rent to tote around potions. My
str/dex could only rent one potion at a time, and couldn't brew,
which meant that if he couldn't rent out affects, he was pretty
much up a creek. Lowering the rent on potions would help this,
but this brings me to my second point. Having affects save over
renting would raise the experience bar necessary to pkill
effectively, in my opinion. For a beginning pkiller, it's hard
enough to type in commands without your hands shaking so much
as to prevent coherence. And as a beginning pkiller, getting
hit with a blind was a cause for enough panic as it was, but
I always knew that if I could find my way to an inn, I'd be
alright. Of course, this was back when you couldn't see at all
when blind, it's a lot easier now. Still, I don't think I would
have had the presence of mind to have a potion ready, quaff it,
and get back into the fight.
Pkill's a difficult enough game to break in to, even in the best
of conditions. If newbie pkillers had to worry about not being
able to rent out blindness/bleeding/poison etc., I would worry
that it would be even more discouraging than it sometimes can be
even now.
Bryn.
From: Sterling
Friday, January 22, 12:07AM
One note on the rent of potions and lack of rent space. I think
that if you chose to load your equipment with high rent damroll
and/or hitroll items,then that's your choice. And you should then
deal with the fact that you'll be unable to rent alot of vials.
However, if you wish to rent alot of vials, then you should adjust
your items and rent accordingly.
Sterling
From: Adolfus
Friday, January 22, 08:37PM
Well at first I thought the way they would do it, would be that
you would come back in the game exactly as you were when
you rented. As for getting away and healing, theres nothing
wrong with this, and if anything the mud would be moving
toward making it even easier to get away and heal. You realize
most muds dont have a hunt skill, at least not one that never
fails and allows you to track ppl super long distances. Be
thankful for that. Being able to get away is good and its
always been there, kinda like chess, if your opponent
only plays for a draw then they are twice as hard to beat.
Right now even though you dont heal when you rent, it is
effectively the same as healing, as you can rent and
stay out of the game for longer than someone is willing
to wait for you to come back. Some of you may say ah, but
im patient, im the same way and have waiting an hour
or two for someone before, but if i rent out and come
back 24 hours later and your there, ill just laugh at you
for wasting so much of your time. So if one wanted to log
on another player and do something else, they are safe.
Its always been that way. As for not being able to rent
off bad spell affects, well um geez, thats too bad
being able to rent off blind is lame, and of course this
system thats proposed will allow you to rent off blind
it will just make it so you have to stay rented till it
goes away. I think this only takes 5 minutes or so real
time. Basically if you are new to pkill and something
happens rent, if you come back in the game before
affects are gone your silly, and if you wait for affects to
go away and then come in game your asking for it. Much
better to wait a few hours.
As for ppl running away and healing, so what, you do this
too Mo, healing I mean. If you cant kill someone before
they can rent, you blew it, they got away.
As for them logging in on another char, I dont know about you
but if I did this I would go find something else to do
not worry about you, this is basically cheating isnt it?
Only annoying ppl come in and give you tells with their alts
etc. If you feel someone is spying on you with an alt
confront them about it, or go someplace and heal.
I think these are really nonissues. Likely this will make
it so someone is more likely to fight while clumsy or
weakened etc, or will rent cure blind potions, or will
head to a safe room, or will rent and stay rented.
Having to stay out of the game for 5 or 10 minutes is
penalty enough for getting blinded, and whats more
maybe you will have to stop blinding someone if you
really want them to stay and fight.
Ie if you cant kill someone after you blinded them before
they can make it to an inn, maybe you should save your
blind spell as a last resort.
From: Mo
Saturday, January 23, 08:20PM
Mmm. Among the things that saving affects over rent could cause is
that of people never renting, but going ooc with a void trigger -- if
items were to decay while you are rented, plus the fact that affects
eventually run out, i could picture a lot more 'inactive' characters
that are online.
Renting out blind and other various effects -- fighter chars will
probably end up renting a ton of cure-whatever vials, but where would
you draw the line? Do you lower the rent of such to an extent where
a fighter's potion supply could easily outlast the mage's mana? If not,
what's the point, sooner or later the fighter will rent anyhow.
As far as getting away goes, this mud has a wicked way of queueing
commands, so if one were to type in certain directions really quick,
they'd go through long before an offensive move by another would go throug
, not to mention hunt lag making it virtually impossible (unless you've go
t a killer ahunt and lagfree link) to try tracking down an opponent
who is running from you.
As far as this being put to place 'cool' effects such as
diseases and stuff -- maybe i'm totally delirious, but when i was
a newbie, i had but one char, and with mobs that effect you with
diseases abound at a newbie-lvl or mobs that poison pretty nearby,
i can see this place becoming even less friendly to newcomers
I mean, let's say i create a char from klein, i find a mob that
count's as a perfect match, boom! i'm affected by a disease, and gee,
nobody can tell me an easy way to get rid of it, but instead they
suggest i rent for 10mins, then come back?! I remember what ppl's
response was when i offered "go ld, then wait 30 mins or so" as a
solution to getting stuck in the bog. no way. cool effects, maybe,
but at what cost?
I guess regardless of the change, us old players won't really get
affected -- we'll quickly find ways to go around them, or create
chars to deal with them, if the changes are debilitating -- since
we are hooked here. And even if we do get a few cool effects, i
am not so sure if many of us will get to see it lots after the
intial ooh ahh stage -- they're either going to be too debilitating
to persist on exposure (or too annoying) or just cosmetic that we
won't care.
Mo!
From: Adolfus
Sunday, January 24, 01:58AM
Don't think theres really any way to justify items decaying after
you rent. Unless its 1 tick equals 1 hour rl, until fully healed,
couldnt argue much with that.
From: LadyAce
Monday, January 25, 12:26AM
I know the Q & A log may not have been totally clear or easy to
read, but it did include mention that items -will not- decay over
rent, and that with poison and other affects being harder to get
rid of, they will be move further from hometowns.
Just a few quick comments, I'm sleepy :)
-LA
From: Mo
Monday, January 25, 11:49PM
mmm. diseases are VERY close to some hometowns tho.
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