Posted by Shiva on 01/15
The old auction system was actually taken out because of us oldbies -blush
We were using it to transfer the 100k Minos used to carry out of Hell,
because there wqasn't anybody on the MUD besides an immort that could carr
carry that is, that much. However I don't see many ways for it to be
exploited in that manner anymore, so why not reinstall it?
Shiva
From: T-Bone
Wednesday, January 13, 03:27AM
Definately, being able to transfer money, bandages or anything
like that doesn't come anywhere close to being good enough
reason to yank it in the first place.
From: Satsu
Wednesday, January 13, 12:05PM
This is just my personal opinion on the issue, but it was my
impression that the reason that auction was pulled was because
it was being abused, that's all. As most of you know, when
a system or a feature, or a bug is abused, we do what we can to
either remedy the situation, or we pull it.
(ponder comma usage) .. Auction was being abused, and the onl
y way that I can see to fix it would require vast amounts
of time and energy from the immortals in monitoring the channel.
Rather than obligating ourselves to more work and monitoring,
the system and method for abuse was removed.
The auction channel was intended, as far as I know, as a method
to stimulate the flow and transfer of goods. Is that purpose
still valid? Probably not. The amount of good that auction
caused was outweighed by the bad.
As someone a couple posts ago said (I forget who, but it was
in reference to the pkill system) [paraphrase] "If it can
be abused, it will, people will find the holes in the system
and use it to their maximum benefit." Auction offers too many
opportunities for holes, and barring a complete shift in the
demographic of our playerbase, auction will not be re-installed.
Again, this is just my personal opinion and I'm not speaking
on behalf of the mud or the immortal staff as a whole.
Satsu
From: Ma
Wednesday, January 13, 01:41PM
You know, auction systems are abused on most othr MUDs out
there too. While it's possible to fix it quite easily I
still don't think it's neccessary and you're just being
tight assed about it.
From: Adolfus
Wednesday, January 13, 01:53PM
Make the cash come out of bank accounts, make certain eq
you would have to code another flag for that, but um, personally
even that I don't see causing much of a problem. Id think it
would be something you would definately need to fix sometime
in the future before coming out of beta stage anyway.
Id think a !noauction flag could possibly fix any forseeable
problems. Can anyone think of problems it wouldn't fix?
From: Mariachi
Wednesday, January 13, 10:32PM
Couple thoughts on this thread:
Satsu mentioned something about demographic change, which I think has
occurred, but probably not to a demographic of non-abuse.
If that demographic exists, please let me know. ;)
On non-auction items, perhaps easier than coding a new item flag
could be to put a lower rent limit on what you can auction, reducing
the likelihood of folk transferring ammo, bandages, etc, across the
mud.
Mariachi, the Minstrel Warrior of Quixote
From: Rufus
Wednesday, January 13, 11:15PM
There is already a no_auction item flag.
-Ruf
From: Ma
Thursday, January 14, 06:51AM
Why even discuss possible fixes, why are you so obsessed with
removing any 'convenience' that the old auction system provided??
It's almost as if you enjoy seeing players suffer with DT's,
slow regen, xp loss etc. You know what the players would
prefer but..
Is it your intention to keep the playerbase small or what?
From: Wraith
Thursday, January 14, 09:06AM
Auction may go in with skill trees.
Various problems with auction included selling bandages for 1000's of
gold, selling bags with items in them, and using the auction house as
a meeting place (the original auction house).
- Wraith
From: Adolfus
Thursday, January 14, 09:35AM
So I guess you can sell anything noauction by putting it in a
bag. This happens a lot on medievia, not bandages, but bags
full of food that go to chars that cant make food. Also
bags with 37 green potions, which are cure critic potions.
I really don't see much of a problem with this. If imms feel
so strongly about it though, id say make it against the
rules and make players report violations, but I guess that
didnt work in the past. Cant all containers be made noauction?
Wouldnt that solve the problem?
From: Ma
Thursday, January 14, 09:39AM
Now name one that matters :P
From: Satsu
Friday, January 15, 01:27AM
Yikes, where is all this pent up aggression coming from.. sheesh.
Anyway, to get back on topic..
re: what players prefer and the futility of discussion and imms
enjoyment of torturing players
Yes, Ma, you are actually correct. We all derive perverse pleasure
from spending hours and hours of our lives coding, building, administering
and and pr'ing (?) a game that we are ultimately trying to destroy.
Many players would enjoy it immensely if we handed out free experience,
gold (albeit useless at the moment), coupons, and a plethora of other
things. But we don't, why? Because it's not best in the long run.
If we did everything that people wanted, we would have most sites on the
internet sitebanned, and a very unhappy mud. We take what we hear,
evaluate it, (to death sometimes) and implement the things that we
feel add to the mud. Call us selfish, but that's what we're here to do.
I can't believe we're still revisiting this point, or maybe it's just
that we are required to visit it once every few months and it's my
turn..
[Begin selfish diatribe]
Most of the imms here have put in an inordinate number of hours on the
mud, improving it, building it, and making sure it runs smoothly.
The current heads of the departments, many of the full imms, and
the Implementors Emeritus specifically have devoted enormous amounts
of their lives to this particular venture, more than a lot of them
would like to admit. And the grief that these people take for
their effort astonishes me. How about, instead of criticizing them
as individuals and the work they do, we work with them to find
creative solutions to problems and appreciate the work that they
do do. That might encourage them to continue, rather than
attacking them personally. Sheesh.
[End selfish diatribe]
That's all I have to say.. for now.
Oh, and good riddance -- ok, now that's all I have to say.
Satsu
From: Lakespeed
Friday, January 15, 09:09AM
Aside from T-bones agression, I don't see anything that you added
to the discussion there Satsu. Having an auction would be good
for the mud, period. I haven't heard any problems mentioned
that couldn't be fixed. Also Medievia's noauction flag keeps
things from being auctioned while being in a bag also.
I don't want to attack you personally, oops meant Ma not T-bone
yes Ma gets frustrated I think, but its partly because of posts
like yours. You align this disscussion with players wanting
free gold and xp? And other things you don't even mention
while saying these things we want will cause the utter
destruction of the mud. I don't buy it myself, the idea here
is to discuss reasons to do or not do something. Personally
if you have a reason not for bringing back auction that would
destroy the mud, then lets hear it, I wouldn't want that, but
if you just want to piss someone off and get the to attack you
personally, then I would say posting fictionous hypotheticals
would be the way to go.
I anyway don't want to give anyone grief, but your post
just reinforces the perception, that players are beneath
you and can add nothing to a discussion about whether
auction should be reimbed.
In this post Ive specifically tried not to drop to a
personal level bashing a post and not adding anything to the
discussion. It would be very easy to get pissed and fire
off something on the board that would just get others upset
and drag the discussion through the mud and end any usefulness
it had. I think its especially important for imms not to do
this, you should try to take the high road, and post something
instead like: Ma I don't think youve added much to the
discussion, we imms are open to ideas, please dont trash us
without adding anything to the discussion.
I admit I very often fail to do this, and post something
very angry etc, but its always in response to an imm post
like yours above. I urge imms, if your not openminded don't
post, and don't trash players on the disscussion board.
Especially not players in general, I would think it far
more appropriate to name names than to speak of the
collective whole of players and say they are gonna cause
the downfall of the mud if they get their way.
If your really tired of revisiting why auction shouldnt
be reimped, post the unfixable reason that it isnt. Or at
least state the imms motive for not imping it and reasonings
for same, and stop talking S---.
Adolfus
Sorry for posting with this char, was testing some things
From: Abigail
Friday, January 15, 11:43AM
Its my understanding that the auction system was going in with
trees under the auctioneer's tree ? I'm sure an immortal will
correct me if I remember wrong.
From: Adolfus
Friday, January 15, 11:51AM
From: Satsu
Friday, January 15, 12:26PM
It was my understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, that
it was a distinct possibility but not a forgone conclusion.
re: adolfus
I do not attack people individually or name names as you suggest
because I don't think the problem is in individuals, simply.
I should also perhaps clarify my personal position on the
re-installation of auction. I do not believe that it will
cause the utter annihalation of the mud, I do, however,
believe that installing a system that can be abused is
asking for headaches. And those are headaches which most of us
mortals and immortals alike could do without.
I'm not suggesting that the problems can't be fixed, they
could with a great amount of effort and as much of a removal
of the human condition as possible I suppose.. (although I'm
not sure if i have grounds for that statement, more of a
feeling) .. I'm not sure that they're worth fixing.
Players have long lamented the loss of auction, heck,
as most of the older players/immortals will tell you,
I was one of hte loudest umm.. lamenters of the loss of
auction. But I stand behind what I said, that installation
of a convenience, while broken, does us no good. Especially
when I haven't heard of a way to keep people using it
in the fashion in which it was intended.
Satsu
| 