Posted by Kaige on 01/14
Ok I feel the need to respond to a couple of recent threads.
1. Comparing two muds to one another, especially muds with different
code bases as well as staffs is like comparing apples and oranges.
Silly analogy time: Sure, it might benefit the world that the
bio-engineers look at both and try to take all the great properties of
both fruits and cram them into one super-fruit. But what happens to
the people who liked the originals? What if I only like clear juice
from my fruit? What if I like my fruit already partitioned into nice
wedges when I peel it? I like smooth skinned fruit, but Bubba likes
bumpy skinned fruit. What's to guarantee that the properties that made
me like this particular fruit will remain in the new fruit?
Evolution provides for diversity -- how many different varieties of
apples and oranges do we have? Life'd be rather boring if it didn't.
Ideas are good but cheap. Incorporating ones that fit with the vision
of Legend are great. However, we have limited resources to draw upon
to implement everything that's suggested because that involves
discussion, design, coding/building/someone's time as well as testing.
Which brings me to the next topic.
2. PR's Expansion of the OOC and resultant threads...
People wonder why discussions get bogged down and never result in a
decision. Appending to unrelated questions with your current pet peeve
is more likely to get people annoyed with you than get your concern
addressed. Nor does this provide any constructive input on the topic
in question. Rudeness in the face of perceived rudeness also doesn't
contribute to a fruitful discussion either.
So in the above process, guess where most ideas get bogged down.
As far as the OOC project taking time away from other much needed
tasks, that's why we have four departments working on different
aspects of the mud and projects. If you don't remember or know what
each department is working toward, please see the post entitled,
"Legend Goals" on the welcome board.
3. Thoughts on pkill:
The quote "leaving it up to the players to create games within a game
is pretty sad. Pkill needs fixing." strikes me personally as rather
odd. Pkill by definition is a contest between player characters within
the context of the game setting. True, there are parameters that are
set on these contests by means of hard coding, but these haven't
particularly changed much in 5 years and some people have successfully
had a good time with this element of the game.
As far as making it easier to remove the pkenabled switch on
characters, it has always been our philosophy that doing so should not
be as easy as changing your coat. The idea was to have pkillers
accountable for their characters actions and to provide a bit of
continuity in the pkill scene so that people wouldn't have to guess
who the jerk playing today.
No, players do not have any official means to track whom plays which
character. However, reality far from this case as many of the people
that "you'd" want to keep track of laugh at roleplaying and crossplay
religiously and make little attempt to conceal their previous
identities. Yes, that's a gerneralization.
As far as "The imms are big into players self regulating themselves
and they want everyone to rp. I guess this is a lot less work, and if
only rp people played here and everyone behaved it would be dandy. But
it just isnt the case." goes, nope, and we realize that, however we
don't force anyone to connect here. Honestly, the immorts have enough
work to do without adding babysitting to the list.
4. Difference of Opinions
Fact: these will always happen. They are not appropriate grounds for
asking for an immortal's resignation. Such hysterics are unwelcome and
unconstructive and borderline plain harassment.
If you strongly feel that your needs as a gamer are not being met by
the new game you got for Christmas for you PC, do you
a) keep playing it for years hoping you'll eventually get an upgrade
disk in the mail fixing everything you hate about it while sending
numerous letters detailing what you hate about it to the developer and
asking for the production team to be fired,
or b) stop playing and return it or put it away on the shelf?
Anyway, I guess my whole point goes back to the idea of diversity and
hanging out with people who share like ideals. Again the broad goals
for the mud are posted on the welcome board.
-Kaige
From: Adolfus
Tuesday, January 12, 01:40PM
My point was with a few changes to pkill you wouldn't have to
babysit anyone, thats the whole point, the system wants babysitting
as it is. Or should I say needs babysitting. I've pkilled here
for a long time and I've never been one for multikill or
crossplay etc, and while I was gm I get ppl in my clan out
of that type stuff also. Also early in my pkill life I
chased grendels around who multied and looted enforcing a bit.
Ive had little effect on the mud doing this, one person
cannot change it, and that was directed towards LA's append
above.
Fact is I'm playing medievia now, and I have been playing it
for about a month or so, but Ive been playing this mud a long
time so, im not gonna break all ties with it, and I still do
play here somewhat.
I think most people that have been putting up ideas, would
say that Sandra has been very closeminded, and outright said
she would withhold changes in pkill until everyone started
acting mature. Thats bs. Ive always acted responsibly while
pkilling, Sandra was involved in more multis than I ever
was. As far as im concerned we can forget about her post
and discuss this rationally. Theres been a lot of people
that said there was things wrong with pkill, most notably
imms saying they want to yank it out.
I guess Sandra has succeeded in dragging this thread
into the mud.
Maybe the system would not fit into this mud, the whole
idea isnt to transfer the whole system over though, the
idea is to have a discussion about what things could
be transferred that would improve the system.
I disagree that ideas are cheap, it almost seems that
certain imms resent anyone giving any suggestions.
You imms must have a real love/hate relationship with
pkill, you want to keep it just the way it is, but want
to badger all the little jerks into behaving.
The whole discussion was very fine, until Sandra's post
in my opinion. Very negative and offensive in my opinion.
And I always got along with Sandra fine while we were in
the same clan, but I think most would agree that all shes
done on the discussion board lately is naysay.
I have no problem with Sandra personally, and as soon
as she can find it in herself to make openminded posts
the sooner we will all be better off.
From: T-Bone
Tuesday, January 12, 01:53PM
What I meant by leaving up to players to create games within a
game meant a few things, there are just not enough willing
participants in pkill these days due directly to how pkill
works here. There's only so many times the same few people
can fight each other before it becomes predictable and boring
yet you feel there's nothing wrong with the system and if
we're bored we should work out something for ourselves?
Well, that is a possibility but elsewhere you'll find clan
systems evolve and improve over time, to a point where everyone
wants to participate.
Instead we find here animosity between clanned due to xp loss
or even for simply running and/or renting, unclanned and
clanned don't get along as they should and you put these
things down to the players.. Such things can be fixed in
the code but you can't reprogram players. You can't stop
them from playing while drunk, while in a bad mood or other
such things. I've had crap happen in RL and taken it out
on people here and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
From: Adolfus
Tuesday, January 12, 02:19PM
I also want to add, that while i've always primarily played
a pkiller, I hardly ever pkilled anyone. Id much rather
see a system where noone was afraid to be pkill enabled
A system with safeguards against pkill run amok. Im not one of
pkillers begging for more action, but at the same time I think
if the system was fixed a bit, more ppl would enable.
Fix it so you dont have to babysit, straighten out the
crazies. And as Sterling is telling he thinks I overreacted
a bit to Sandra's post, thats very possible, possibly probable.
But I think her post was a very poor one, and it made me
very frustrated. Specially when Rufus was trying so hard
to veiw things with an open mind.
From: DeathSpawn
Tuesday, January 12, 04:47PM
I would have to agree with Kaige in every aspect of this post.
Nothing that goes on here, that isn't deemed illegal in the rules
should be monitored by the imms. If people don't RP as much as
others why should it be up to the imms to make the change? The
change has to be made by the player themselves.. and whining
about how this player crossplays or this player multis or this
player loots and you don't like it is like screaming for help in a
soundproof room. Sure it isn't morally right to loot/multi, but, it
isn't and shouldn't be illegal either. Same goes for RP, if a player
doesn't RP much, but they have fun killing mobs or whatever.. no-
body should care. This is a game.. and games are supposed to be
fun.. so just let them do what they do and have fun yourselves
and in the meantime. Don't make it hard on the imms who do all
of the work to keep Legend running smoothly and to the best of their
abilities. For in my opinion, they deserve medals for their hard work
and dedication, and just simply a love for Legend which is what keeps
everybody here in the first place. You don't see imms complaining
about the fact that they make no money working with Legend do you?
No. That is because they love the game and have fun with it.. but when
you complain consistently about, well, non-important matters. It just take
s away from the joy the imms get from the game. I guarantee they didn't
put in all of this time on Legend for their health.
This has been my thoughts and feelings on this subject and the
general feelings and atmosphere of Legend.
DeathSpawn-Satan's right hand, angel for the Prince of Darkness.
From: Adolfus
Tuesday, January 12, 07:40PM
The flip side to that Deathspawn is that there always other
players dying to immort who would be willing to work very hard
also, So it should somewhat be veiwed as a priviledge to be
an immort and not a task, thats the only time I suggest
someone should step down. If they say they have had enuf
complain a lot etc. Its not that they necessarily are doing a
bad job, but theres always others dying to replace them.
Course good help is hard to find and we should appreciate
what they do for us. Maybe it should be limited to terms like
the senate or something haha.
I agree with you also Deathspawn about whats within the rules
is all fine and dandy, Im not pointing out any players and
complaining about what they do, but rather pointing out
what I percieved as flaws in the system were improvements
could be made. Pkillers don't need any hand holding, at least
not the established ones.
From: Zeppelin
Tuesday, January 12, 10:00PM
So many topics I dont know where to start (and still keep it
short for T-Bone to read :P). Ok, imo pk could use some
tweaking. I would like to see EQ not stay on corpses for pk
deaths. The arguement has always been that looting is rp-able.
I think we would find that opinion to be in the minority, and
that most pk chars who loot end up getting it back ten-fold and
multied. For me, I dislike the zones concept, but thats just me
and the way I play. Its a good system, and is mirrored in the
safe room setup we have now (and in OOC up until the 10 tick timer).
But I like being able to chase chars anywhere. On this topic --
would adding maybe 2 more clan halls and clans help pk? I dont
know its been said 'not gonna happen' because housing is coming -- ok
when is it coming? How long can it take to make 4 rooms and add
12 trans mobs?
I really, really like LadyAce's thoughts about pk pts + xp. Please
consider this. And, Beam's right lots of chars would immort. Hell,
I'll retire my pker today to join the Builder Dept. I have a great
idea for a small area in indust. Hmmm, you taking apps?
Anyway, I'm losing track of where I was going. Hi Kaige btw.
Zep
From: Zeppelin
Tuesday, January 12, 10:08PM
Oh yeah -- either all safe rooms should be no-recall or all should be
recallable. I personally like the no-recall idea some, but would
favor them all being recallable out of IF we could get more clan halls.
Zep
From: Adolfus
Tuesday, January 12, 10:31PM
Just a short post. I agree Zeus it would suck not being able to
chase people anywhere, and I also really like the norecall
safe room(s)? I think they help the pkill atmosphere quite
a bit just by having an ic place to hang out and be able to
go afk, but didn't Rufus mention somewhere they would most
likely be ripped out after housing went in? Some if not all?
This also is a pretty dramatic change I would think, and I assume
it would be to encourage pkill people to buy housing? Hrm we
already got clanhalls, on the other hand safe rooms are viewed
as a last refuge for rogue players now? I'd like to hear more
about if and why they would be removed exactly, what the
reasoning would be etc.
From: Zeus
Tuesday, January 12, 11:06PM
Are clan halls getting ripped when housing goes in also?
From: Tarn
Tuesday, January 12, 11:11PM
Ok, here's my 2 cents worth on this thread.
First, I should state I do not play a clanned character, I have never
played a clanned character, and at this point do not intend to play
a clanned character.
On the issue of attitudes between pk and non-pk, yes I have noticed a
difference of opinion. Some of my best friends here are pk or have pk
alts, so I have nothing against pk-ers or pk in principle. But I do
resent it when pk-ers jump up and down about changes (and they do seem
to be the most vocal whenever changes are made to skills, hometown
abilities, etc), and expect that changes be made because their char is no
longer the 'in' char. I resent the attitude I perceive that if you don't
pk you are a nobody on this mud. I point out that I perceive this
attitude only from a relatively few pkers, not from the majority, but it
is still there, IMO.
Someone pointed out in this thread that we all come here to have fun. YES
They then went on to point out that we don't need babysitting and that if
some choose not to RP, but enjoy jumping/looting/multiing, then let them.
I think this is the gist of what was said. I wont argue with that opinion
but the jump/loot/multi attitude in pk is one of the reasons I think that
some players are choosing not to pk, because for some players being
jumped/looted/multied is not their idea of fun.
We all come here with our own ideas of what we want to do here. I can't
say that my idea of playing here is the right one, or that someone else's
is wrong, nor does anyone else have the right to say that I am wrong in
the way I choose to play my chars.
There are several things I don't like here, but overall I enjoy playing
here, and will continue to do so, as long as I enjoy it.
One of the things I don't like is the line I perceive between pk players
and non-pk players. I would love to see an attitude of mutual respect for
the different ways we choose to play our characters.
Well, I think I gave you more like 200 coins of my opinion ...
------------
Tarn
From: Screwball
Wednesday, January 13, 08:26AM
Tarn makes an excelleny point. Nobody forces anyone to roleplay
but when the 'Quake' type players jump without reason, they
are forcing you to play thier style of game. It would be nice if
there were a way to designate that you don't want to be jumped,
but I have seen people who jump and then whine about it
when the favor is returned, even if the person getting revenge
tries to rp it.
From: Adolfus
Wednesday, January 13, 02:08PM
Oh, um remembered, that on med anyway, they deal with not being
able to chase ppl out of zones, by, putting blood on your hands
and if you got blood on your hands you can be attacked anywhere.
The blood stays on your hands different amounts of time depending
on what you do, the more ppl you kill the blood stays on longer
after each kill, with killing someone being the longest blood
time. Attacking someone with blood on their hands puts blood
on your hands for a shorter time, and being attacked
could only possibly put 1 or 2 tick blood time, or possibly
none at all. One cannot go ooc while having blood on hands
it saves over rent, not sure if you can enter safe rooms
while blood is on your hands, but I would you probably
shouldn't be able too.
From: Danar
Thursday, January 14, 05:49PM
The problem is, although being an immortal carries with it certain
perquisites, the responsibilities that come with it are IMHO much more
significant. I'm also really impressed with your claim that there are
suitable replacements for every imm waiting in the wings. If they really
were good enough to replace the imms we have now, they'd apply and get
immed. ;P
Danar "Hey, I've got an area proposal. Imm me!" Sigrittiano
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