Changes to choke?

Posted by Israfel on 10/16

Have there been any changes to the length of time carotid-chokes last?

Almost all my characters are dex/something or the other and having tried with quite a few of them, I find that my carotid-chokes o on very very rare occasions last 5 rounds, and almost always last only 2 rounds or so now. Which makes things a rather inconvenient where choke/flee/backstab is concerned. I get back in the room and the mob is awake.

This is a rather major change from when my chokes lasted 5 rounds at least and I'd be very interested to know if there -has- been a change or I've simply been having incredibly bad luck. Also, if there was a change, knowing the reason(s) for it would be appreciated.

Israfel Shadowleaf

Servant of the Lady

From: Zeus Wednesday, October 14, 12:34PM

Not sure if its been changed, but since you brought it up:

I'd like to throw out what I think should be the MAX_LENGTH of a stun/para/whatever for PK only. I really dont care how it works against mobs, the same or different...

Para backstab and warcry = max of 3 rounds stunned, no less than 2

Caratoid choke, staggering headbutt, sticking stun = max of 2 rounds, no less than 2

Gun/bow stuns = max of 2 rounds, no less than 1

Regular stun, headbutt, stunning elbow = max of 1 round, no less than 1

This will, to some extent even out player killing in MY opinion. I hate to lose a duel because of luck, and I dislike to win because of luck.

As a side note, I think elbow should work different than it does, say maybe JUST like kick, but str bases, but thats a different topic.

From: Rictor Wednesday, October 14, 05:30PM

I dont think choke EVER gave a 5 round stun in all its existance as a general rule, I think you had to get really lucky to get them, I could be wrong tho.

Sir Rictor Belmont

From: Skar Wednesday, October 14, 05:53PM

Why in the world would a warcry stun longer than choking somebody unconcious? Or frying their brain with a spell? If you've stunned someone with a bullet or a glancing head shot with an arrow, why would that stun you for even less time?

From: Goliath Wednesday, October 14, 08:28PM

Its an issue of balance, not "physically" making sense. Sheesh! A bullet or arrow to the chest kills.....

From: Papercut Wednesday, October 14, 10:28PM

Stuns in pk have always been fairly short, it is, to my knowledge, impossible to backstab on a carotid because invariably the victim wakes up before you can flee/come back.

Shot stuns are even shorter, but those you can get when you are outside the room, so if you type REALLY fast, you can get a backstab in, which will immediately (unless you get lucky and para) wake an opponent. Warcry stuns in pk seem to last slightly longer, but that's fair imho considering how often you get those, but then again, warcry can't be tumbled, so maybe it should be toned down ? :P

As far as headbutt and stun spell stuns are concerned, they most often don't last longer than 1 round (half a round now unless you daze/wfw since the change to priority) but as they are far more 'reliable' than other skills, i think that's fair.

I haven't personally experienced any significant change in duration of stuns, but due to the change in priority they often times feel shorter than they used to be (compared to the stuns i used to get as a low-prio mage).

From: Celeste Thursday, October 15, 02:17AM

Pk stuns are short, I know, but I've had carotid chokes on say, the spirit bear that have lasted 6 rounds, he never woke up.

And these weren't, or didn't use to be rare. Since I'm a wussy non-pkiller it's mob chokes that interest me.

Until fairly recently I was getting MUCH longer stuns than the 2 to 3 rounds I always get now. (With choke)

From: Celia Thursday, October 15, 02:59AM

I remember getting 6 round chokes FROM a mob, depsite having 100str/con ;P As far as I recall, choke stuns used to be rare, but when they happened, they often lasted 5-6 rounds. I haven't used choke much lately, so I don't know if thats changed.

Celia

From: Prospero Thursday, October 15, 08:31AM

length of stun isnt luck, its a matter of deliberate choice for stats, perc, makes you dependent on para, or warcry if you use it, I dont really know anyone that still does though And a sniper needs a long para, most of us dont do lots of damage, and no wthat parry, a dex skill, isnt really a dex skill anymore, we get beat up left and right.

From: Sergei Thursday, October 15, 03:57PM

Remember also that getting bruising chokes before a carotid increase the length of carotid chokes by quite a bit.

Sergei

From: Papercut Thursday, October 15, 06:28PM

Most of the time, you can increase the length of a stun by stacking stuns on top of them. I personally (mostly when stunning) rely on the fact that good stuns last 4 rounds (in the old prio, anyway) and went for stun-kick-stunwhilestunned to try to increase the length of stuns. In pk, that amounts to nothing unless you are talking about the skill--i've had ppl wake up from a backstab-para-backstab-para almost immediately after the second para :P

Papercut

From: Snyde Thursday, October 15, 11:35PM

I don't really like making critisms here because I work in a job where I have to balance multiple points of view and I know that no matter what you do, you usually make someone unhappy who then wails a lot. Having said that I have also noticed the reduction in choke length and I am not very impressed with it. I worked some maths through it to show an example.

I am a dex/perc character so rely on choke quite a bit. My dagger has an avedam of 3 and I usually hit on about 8 of 11 attacks therefore an average of about 24 damage. Sniper therefore damroll doesn't count. On a mob stunned by a choke, I don't miss very often, 11x3=33 damage. An increase of 9 plus a little bit as I understand that you do slightly more damage to a stunned mob. So say 36 damagr for an increase of 12. Ohh and plus maybe 3 damage for the choke. I ask what is the point? I could kick for around 40 damage. This is even more attractive when you consider I get about 80% of my kicks and only get a corotid choke about 20% of the time. My conclusion is that a stun of 2 rounds is only useful if the mob would have done more than about 70 damage to me in those 2 rounds. In which case I would have got a group together.

Thinking about the issue, about the only sensible solution that I can think of would be to introduce a system based on weapon rounds - not combat rounds. I figure it would work along these lines...a round with my dagger has a value of one, a special has a value of one. Other group members attack pulses would also count as one. For example...corotid chokes lasts 5 rounds....choke happens. 2 rounds to recover from skill lag = 2 weapon rounds, then a kick for 1 and 2 more rounds to recover then the mob wakes up. In a group of 5 hitters, this would mean... choke..1,2,3,4,5 hitters go = 5 rounds = stun over. I realise this would have problems such as what happens with multiple stuns, and game balance issues surrounding how long various chokes last.

-ponder length of raving- I hope that something is done to help all the people who have put a lot of effort into their dex characters only to see thier value fall so fast.

Sorry to be so long, Snyde.

From: Papercut Friday, October 16, 04:02AM

Not quite sure what you mean by "i'm a sniper so damroll doesn't count." On average, you'll be surprised to see that snipers do almost as much damage as any other character on the mud, and you forget that chokes have the additional effect of knocking the mob out of combat, serving a defensive purpose as well.

Also, chokes do last, on mobs anyway, at least two rounds, enough for a sniper char to flee and comeback for a backstab. This additional chance is worth a LOT more than what you may think, considering it comes with a chance to para as well.

Papercut