Create vials

Posted by Siachet on 04/09

I don't know if this has been brought up before but..

Is there any possibility of implementing a means by which mages can use magic to propel vials rather than relying on the throw skill? The current method disadvantages create mages who are not dex. I would like to build a strength creat mage (or possibly switch to strength when we get pracs back after the skill wipe), but would hate to lose the ability to throw my own vials.

I realise that mages generally don't have a very good throw anyway, and it is possible to group with somebody to throw the vials. However, to me one of the fun things about being a create mage is being quite self-sufficient, and if you have somebody to group with it would probably be a better option to fight rather than use ID vials anyway. Also, the fact remains that dex mages can make use of these vials alone, and that is an advantage over other types.

Sia

From: Wraith Friday, April 03, 08:41AM

I don't think this would be a good idea. For one thing, create mages should create things, but what you want to do is to Cause something to move. Also, I think some recent posts pointed out that con create mages had an advantage over other types of create mages. The ability to use magic to attack with vials, would only strengthen them.

- Wraith

From: Mandrake Friday, April 03, 01:04PM

Could always give homos or one of the other charmies the throw skill?

From: Siachet Friday, April 03, 06:40PM

In regard to con mages having an advantage, I think those posts were referring to the tanking ability of summoned mobs and possibly resistance to fighting attacks which stun. ID does not give xp, so the ability to use ID vials is not really relevant to balance in combat (tho tanks with big hps are another way to get equip I guess) Also, I was under the impression this con advantage with summoned mobs might be fixed at some time anyway.

It is true that propelling a vial seems cause-like, but it isn't the case that create has no such spells now -poke poison-. I can see the desire to distinguish the spell classes, but having the ability to use many of the best create spells dependent on non-mage stats when the cause equivalent is mind based seems unsatisfactory to me.

What about two versions of the spell, one which just makes a vial, and another, costing more mana, which makes the vial and hurls it at a target? I guess that might just seem a chessy way to make a cause spell look create. But there are other types of create vial which are virtually never used because the chance of hitting with a throw is so low.

Sia

From: Wraith Friday, April 03, 08:37PM

What can I say? Try using dex? Having mobs which can throw may not be a bad idea, however, I think it would require another spell which would create a fighting mob with the potential of using many skills (hopefully not dozens of times a round). I say this because the homunculi are meant to allow the mage to carry more (create version of the strength spell) and the others which are meant to do the fighting already have acts to let them do additional damage.

As for vials being a cheesy way to give create mages a cause spell, you may be partially correct. But, they also add some balance to those two schools of magic (ignoring the inherit weakness of the know school). Instead of having the exact same spell, they use vials which does them them different. The create version is more powerful in my opinion because you can cast the spell and just throw the vial. If it hits, the mob dies. Cause mages have a more difficult time in my experiece. Also, you cannot ignore the possibility that more spells that use vials could be added in the future. If you are a create mage, you can give vials to your friends letting them have the same ability as you. Cause mages cannot do that.

- Wraith

From: Siachet Friday, April 03, 10:42PM

I am a dex mage myself. I was realised that not being able to throw vials would be a significat factor in deterring me from switching to another stat after the skill wipe or from building a new non-dex create. If most people don't feel that way then it isn't a problem, but it seems t me something that could unbalance the proportion of each type (which is also supported by your suggestion to try using dex :P)

I didn't say vials were cheesy, but that my suggestion of giving create a version of the make vial which would also propel it at a target in one spell might be cheesy. However, it would allow ID vials to be used by all types of create mage and for the other types of vials to be used in combat

The create spell is certainly not more powerful and cause for strength and con mages since you can not 'just throw the vial' (therefore not really having the spell at all unless you are grouped). For dex mages, the cause might take a bit more mana if you are dealing with a very smart mob, especially when the create spams gear to throw (but I would have thought that might not be something to be encouraged), therefore create might be more useful as far as ID goes.

Having the vials encourages spamming to throw though. I suggested two versions, the current spell which would make vials that could be traded or given to fighters to throw, and a higher mana version that would create a vial and hurl it in one, allowing all types of create to use their own v I like the idea of summoned mobs being able to throw :P Or maybe a 'create magic catapult' spell. -duck-

But seriously, what would happen if mages lost high level fight stat skill (which I thought might be going to happen with trees?)

Sia

From: Erodic Saturday, April 04, 12:22AM

I think that by choosing to be a CON mage, you have already made a decision that you are willing to go without the ability to throw. if you want to throw vials, then go dex.

i mean, if you allow this, then why can't con mages ask for a bash skill? i mean, hey, STR mages can bash...

From: Siachet Saturday, April 04, 01:47AM

-gasp-

Somebody suggested that a CON mage should be able to THROW??!???! Who on earth suggested that??? It sounds absolutely ridiculous. Did that suggestion get erased? I can't seem to see it anywhere.

Sia

From: Arsene Sunday, April 05, 12:09PM

just go dex cause third circle in acccordance with the wishes of whoever codes the system, hey , you want to be good right? you can throw and have good ID both.

From: Siachet Monday, April 06, 04:24AM

Umm, no thanks Arsene. I have more fun with my create mage than my cause mage, and would like a change from dex. However, most of my fun comes from equipping doppels, for which I need to use ID vials now and again. So I guess I will stick with dex as long as the create version of ID requires the throw skill to be utilised.

And I wasn't wanting both throw and good ID, but rather an ID spell without throw :P

Sia

From: Arsene Monday, April 06, 07:04PM

thats what cuase mages have

From: Wraith Wednesday, April 08, 08:29AM

I could see a create spell which creates an arm that would be able to throw a vial. However, I don't see how that would be balanced currently.

- Wraith

From: Siachet Wednesday, April 08, 09:06AM

Do you mean a weapon or an arm with a hand on the end? =)

That would be fun. I can see how you would have a problem with balance because create mages could use it to throw objects other than vials they make with their own spells.

A disembodied arm that could throw would be hilarious though :)

Sia

From: Wraith Wednesday, April 08, 04:41PM

I was thinking of an arm that you would give the vial to so they could throw it, follow you around for a very short period, and perhaps pick up things. It might be better to have it as a spell which you would cast on the vial and it would instantly throw it at somebody. That would basicly be what was originally suggested, but explained in a fashion to justify it as a create spell instead of cause.

- Wraith

From: Himura Wednesday, April 08, 05:29PM

Since create mages can create so many stuffs anyway, why not include a charmed creature that had the throw skill, at a mana price similar to that of a titan or something?

But of course, make it weak and worthless otherwise, so you really can't make it tank :P

From: Mandrake Thursday, April 09, 11:26AM

Hey, if create mages get a Thing-like creature to throw stuff, how about allowing us to cause arms and legs to grow from objects such as backpacks so we can finally move stuff around too? :)