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1) You cant kill a mage in agg pkill that doesnt want to be killed. - because you cant para him anymore, two round paras stink, he can halve, or even cut by two thirds your attacks, blind you and run, and go heal. they have parry as dex fighters, or an autoidiocy weapon as con fighters. the dodge tumble, and don thave to worry at all about losing max attacks if they get 101 dex. they dont have ANY worry about losing max proficiencies and they arent even fighters. And as for our advantage, the longer paras of warcry and backstab are gone, you might call them luck, but you sack a lot as a fighter to get backstabs, and to use warcry in pk is DUMB, it still paras rare, and it doesnt last.
You have continually downgraded fighters or their methods to approach bein even to a smart mage in pk, you can say what you want, but the tourney bor that out plain as day, ask Dede. Its simply a downhill battle as a fighter continually looking for something new as anything reliable is yanked while our complaints fall on deaf or stubborn ears.
Also as someone who levels people second and third pkillers, I've only onc out of about 10-15 times seen anyone choose a fighter for a second pkiller, and only 2 create mages. I think that says a lot.
Mages have simple exchanged one fighter type for spellcasting ability. Oth characters have done the same thing to gain bardic, surgeon, sniper or herbal skills. Ideally, all possible combinations would be balanced. However, this is not possible in the real world or Legend. You will not see many characters walking around with 100 per and 100 spirit.
Now, you are saying that character's with 100's in all their fight stats are able to resist most fight skills but they are decimated by mages. To me, I do not think it is as simple as you are suggesting. If you have 100's for all your fight stats, you should hit hard, a lot, and should be able to take quite a beating before going down. (Excluding sniper for obvious reasons.) Mages, on the other hand, have sacrificed getting high stats in 2 fight skills ( _real_ mages). In addition they have to keep several other stats reasonably high. High enough so that it is not a trivial matter to maintain them. These two different character types shoul be balanced. The results from the pkill tourney indicates this is the case
You claim that the mind requirement is not achieving its goal. From that I would think new requirements of 35, 25, 15 would seem more reasonable to you. There would be less characters with 3 100's. They would only lose one weapon skill from the idiocy spell. Also, you may find it hard to believe, but 30 is an average stat when skills are considered. Basicly, this means that with the current mind requirements, you can still be a moron and learn how to use weapons at the highest proficiency level.
- Wraith
-Remove the cause magic spell 'blind'.. as it is.. cause mages are better combat-wise than create.. thats fairly obvious, one of the main reasons for this is the blind spell. I know everyone that has pkilled extensively is used to being blinded constantly. If the blind spell was removed, then create mages would benefit due to the fact that they would be the only spell casters with a blind spell.
-Move the minimum mind for Rudh to 80.. Rudh is supposidely greater magic why can you have such a small mind and yet use rudh? To me it doesnt make any sense and moving the mind req to 80 seems pretty logical.
-Raise the spirit requirement of many words 5 or 10 points higher. As it is most all mages spam up to meditate, and then spam way down to cast spells. As it is now the current spirit level to cast all spells is fairly low.. 5 points higher would seem more logical.
Just some suggestions.. maybe they wouldnt be very good after all but just something I was thinking about..
North
Basically straight fighters are unusual in having 3 high stats while other types of character, mages, healers etc have only 2, due to the higher requirements in a range of stats. I cannot see how encumbering these types of character with higher requirements for casting etc would aid balance. It would be better to raise the requirements for fighting skills, so that no type of fighter can easily get 3 high stats, but to ungrade some fighter skills to allow more powerful strategies when these requirements are met (equivalent to the most powerful spells).
These more specialised skills would not then be available to mages if the range of stat requirements for the fight skills and for spell casting differed.
As to people making a mage with their 2nd or 3rd character, that is to be expected as most people start with the easier type of character to build and progress to the harder. This also may mean that those playing mage characters tend ON AVERAGE to be more experienced, which might give the illusion that mages are more powerful when in fact the players have more experience (with many exceptions of course).
I did it the other way around and built 3rd circle mages first, I don't think my next character will be a 3rd circle mage now I have found out how much easier other types are to build :P
Ishtar
most mages are dex, or have tumble, and have choke/kick which at 100 dex work nearly as well(perc helpgin dodge and parry which I left out, it helps parry i think) because the onlymage i saw lose to a fighter was and this gives them an attac vs everyone that isnt con/dex/str, but then they can use stun still, which isnt too shabby. or, they can bind or blind, then look to idiocy , (inspire if blind, then weaken or clumsy to further reduce attacs to where you do no damage so , a fighter has attacs from dex, tumble to avoid bash, hbutt, and even choke. so they are as insulated from thise attacs as a fighter without high str/con cause mages have str, so 20s str plus that 10 requires dispel magic to cut a sink, then dispel magic to cut the str spell(takes 2) and then weaken, which, wow , most fighters chant do But a mage cna effectively cut your damage down to zilch, but fighters dont have anything approaching that ability.
and as for your percentages, a lot are purely fighters unless they spam and most by the time they are 50 cant rent spam, so there are alot who have no magic
Ishtar- 101 dex/mind, all spells and 25 str plus 10 for the spell are possible, I have two chars like that, and you dont drop your weapon without three spells cas on you.
then there are 100 dex/con 2nd circles they can bind/idicoy/blind/weaen/clumsy/rem armor/incapacitate as easily as you, tumble str attacks, and resist dex and con attacs as well as a fighter with those stats, and their cripple spells are @Ebs0effect line noise please excuse
m/kick/headbutt as wel as you, an#d still dont have to worry about losing max attacks, and have a good sink if they get it
-and lastly all mages have extreme escapapbility. thkby cna blind] you and runw3 which a f]ighter cant do.
or cast fear
with long paras gone, a mage who doesnt want to die rarely does.
in fact most non duel mages I fight that I managento get ahead Oon escape on the other hand@oa fighter can be inspired( we ont have min/spr to inspi or bound, or blinded away from an inn with no cure and hunted down.
mages have every in game advantage of a fighter except high dam roll and their are even str mages who do well though they can cure sink and blind as aweel as others
o Ill add more to this post tomorrow , line noise is too much
- Wraith
Just my opionon...
-Asmodean, the wiry old mage...
Mages need to have even more mind than fighters, which is apparantly a 'useless' stat by your definition...
We even -gasp- need some perc to cast our spells, wouldn't it be nice if there was no perc requirement for magic ...
And -shudder- you wouldn't believe it, but we even need to get some str to survive as a mage, yup, even we need to wield weapons.
You like to compare fighters as if getting all 6 stats as a mage to reasonable levels was anything compared to a fighter needing to get 4 or 5.. :P
Somar
In my opinion 25 strength is a major weakness (oops pun). I would actually be encumbered at that strength, unless I threw away all my 'RP' items and probably some of my fighting strategy items too.
Having 3 spells cast on you to weaken and drop your weapon or having your strength/spell sink wear off without noticing is far from impossible (assuming that you have a strength spell which all mages don't have).
Wearing sink all the time costs mana. Also the above stats require minimal con (ie very low hps and high vulnerability to choke, warcry headbutt etc. And with that low strength you would be very easily encumbered by a fighter with 100 strength who can hand you soemthing heavy etc etc etc.
The point is it is not cost free.
Ishtar
Leth
as for being able to use warcry choke, kick, headbutt, etc vs a mage, its ineffective. choke headbutt have no length to paras at all, and warcry ha been cut in half, and backstab too, you migh tbe able to use those skills vs a mage, but with the pk sanc effect and the short paras, YOU CANT KILLL THEM
all a mage does is get up after your short cruddy para and run heal. then they can come back, and use kick/choke or warcry/headbutt or bash as well as any fighter, in addition to their cripple spells. so yes you can u use a skill vs a mage, but they are so tame, they suck.
you might call it luck to kill someone on a straight para, but it used to be the only way you could kill a mage, now it takes the mage being dumb or deciding to fight to the death, something in agg pk that no one does. while a mage has bind and inspire to keep you there.
-to what ishtar said, all cause mages have str spell, and you can carry a decent amount of gear off 20-25 str pluss a spell, and going around sinked is what pkillers who pkill a lot do. and the difficulty of dispel dispel that it takes two potions thrown, or two dipped arrows and a potion thrown unless you are a create mage sniper.
then it takes three dips.
All Im saying is there is a fundamental imbalance in that cause mages dict ate what happens in a fight, and have extreme advantages by having dex/min cripples spells, they are once again capturing most all of the best facets of the code for pk, and with shortened paras and idiocy, it makes their lives even easier and more insured. the fixes that go in all seem to benefit the cause mages, bind imped, blind taken from snipers, shorter paras, less damage vs sitting, sanc for pk, the mind req.
And if you calculate mind roughly (agreed, very roughly), you can say that a 100 mind could equal 200 IQ (VERY smart). And that makes 25 mind equal a 50 IQ. Which is not very smart. So if it should be changed in any way, I think it should be raised...
Just my thoughts, so flame away :)
Jamal of Agrabah.
Go out, pkill 10-15 times a week with a character from london or Lima vs c cause mages and see how well you do, and how many times you have to rent, and how many times if you manage to come out on top, a cause mage runs and heals, or just runs away while you have to go rent. I have to rent an average of Id say 4 times a fight vs a cause mage, and in group fighting if you dont have a cause mage and the opponent does, 9 of 10 the other sid wins, ceteribus paribus.
Rather it concerns things such as the length of blind, lack of cure blind, redundancy of multiple fighting stats in increasing strategy options etc.
The mind requirement per se makes no difference to these issues.
Ishtar