Posted by Acestes on 01/30
I'm pretty sure this has been discussed before, but anyway. With
the way things are now (stats being balanced etc), it seems like
spell damage has been left unbalanced. It doesn't make sense that
some powerful spells can do the same amount of damage to a con
fighter, as it does to a non-con fighter. Say the spell did 50
damage, a high level con fighter with around 550hps won't miss
the 50hps much, whereas a a high level non-con fighter, with say,
around 300hps, will. All it takes is 6 of those spells, and the
person is reduced to 0hps. Then also take into account the damage
done in combat, and its reduced to 4 or 5 spells required to kill
them. This is just an example, actual spell damage for some spells
is considerably higher. Spell damage doesn't take into account
that say, a dex person has their advantages by being able to
dodge/parry attacks, and also have a greater hitroll, whereas
melee combat does. Spell damage totally bypasses this. A possible
solution would be to take off a percentage of the victim's total
hitpoints (and i'm sure this has been suggested in the past),
with a min/max set as usual. I just want to know what's going on
with this, if it's been achknowledged, ignored, accepted or
what. To me it seems out of whack.
Acestes
From: Jehovah
Sunday, January 11, 02:07PM
Well.. so far I'd say that having spell damage do the same
damage to each person kind of makes sense. First of all,
making spells deal more damage to con fighters than non-con
fighters defeats the purpose of going con for the hps.
I mean, sure it'd be great mages end up doing more damage,
but it really doesn't make much sense IMHO.
If anything, con fighters would be less suceptible
to magical attacks such as gust of wind, firestorm or immol.
because of their high constitution.
Anyways... all in all... I think these are details
that are more aimed towards making Legend more realistic,
and until we can actually figure out how to "balance out"
the different fight-stats, trying to fiddle with magic
would throw us into further confusion...
) just my two cents -- Jehovah
From: Madison
Sunday, January 11, 03:36PM
Maybe instead of varying the amount of damage the spell itself does
there could be someway for high dex and perc fighters to avoid some
of the damage. It could be reasoned that they saw the mage start casting
so they rolled off to the side, thereby reducing the damage taken by
some amount. Of course it wouldn't make much sense to avoid area
affect spells like immolate, unless there were terrain considerations.
But I ramble, I think you get the gist of my statement.
Madison
From: Psytrac
Sunday, January 11, 08:11PM
how about making a skill, say, counterstrike, that will prevent a mage
from casting a spell? it would be more a preemptive strike, say, of
3 round skill delay, that, if typed a round (or at the same round) a mage
casts a spell, will, either dodge the spell, and or do more damage
depending on dex/mind (casters mind, defenders dex) comparison?
From: FairfaxII
Tuesday, January 13, 08:41AM
I thought it was possible to dodge stuns now.. arguably the most
commonly used offensive spell... As Jehovah said, if damage done was
based on a percentage of hps, then there will be no point whatsover
in having high hps.. The idea of having more hps is so you last
longer in a fight.
Just my thoughts
Fairfax the Second
From: Siachet
Tuesday, January 13, 09:00PM
I think the point is that con fighters are supposed to be able to take mor
more damage, in exchange for doing less damage (not as much hitroll)
and being hit harder (less ac, no dodge etc) so that it balances out. This
applies to weapon damage and some fighting skills where there is a chance
of tumbling. However, magic is not affected by ac and hitroll, so it bypas
all of this. A con mage against a dex mage would be balanced if both just
used fighting skills (although I'm not sure that would be true either, unl
the dex mage used kick/flee), but once magic is added its hard to see how
they are balanced because dex gives no defence against spells while tankin
ability does, so dex have no increased damage or avoidance to compensate
for their lack of hps.
I know the answer will be, dex have to use kick/flee to compensate. That
is true of straight dex fighters too, but still dex gives some advantages
while actually in combat (hitroll, ac, dodge, tumble) for fighting skills
not for magic. And I do wonder if this is going to be a bigger problem if
the kick/flee gets ironed out through fixing the attack priority too.
Sia
From: TerrorSpawn
Wednesday, January 14, 07:02AM
I don't see where you people keep coming up with the idea that
if you're a dex fighter, you HAVE to kick/flee to kill anything.
I'm a dex fighter, with no other stats above 60, and I haven't
used that tactic for over a year now, because I found out that
I can do better without it, especially under the new fight system.
-TS
From: Siachet
Wednesday, January 14, 10:36AM
I don't know where anybody would come up with the idea that
if you're a dex fighter you have to kick/flee to kill anything either,
TerrorSpawn. In fact, I don't know which people you are referring to,
because I have never heard a dex fighter suggest such a thing, myself.
This is the answer that non-dex fighters usually post when a possible
imbalance in the game like the one above is pointed out.
I have heard it time and time again, 'stop complaining, your a dex
fighter, use kick/flee' etc when the issue of balance is discussed.
The issue of balance has nothing to do with whether dex can or
cannot kill things without using this technique.
Sia
From: Psytrac
Wednesday, January 14, 01:54PM
kick/flee just happens to be a very
powerful skilltactic) to use, especially against
mobs that dare too alert to be bs'd
it does tons of damage, and works too well against even
autohunting mobs, since the mob can't chase you b4 the
skill delay runs out...
as far as being able to dodge more goes,
i think it's not really true.. i have 100dex/[erc and nearly 100 ac, and i
am getting whacked just as much as my
con fighter (who happesns to have 100 dex, but not the perc)
in my experience, it takes nearly forever to runkill something with 600 hp
ust tanking it with a 100 dex..
but what's worse is str fighters..
i dont think it does nearly as much damage to make up for lacking hps AND
the ability to dodge. i mean, they should to 3 times as much
than a dex/con warrior, but i seriously doubt that is
the case, esecially when bash does only 33% more damage, where as both
con and dex have stun skills that are 100% (i think)
From: Acestes
Wednesday, January 14, 10:15PM
-poke subject- discuss spell damage, make new threads if you wish to
debate the inadequacies of other things.
From: Kari
Thursday, January 15, 05:44AM
really acestes, I still the the verdict is 'out' on whether
what you have to say or anyone else really are 'inadequacies.'
I have characters ranging from con-mind mages to dex/perc
thieves to mixtures of all different types. The only thing
the new fight system has done has evened all their abilities
so that they can't fight the same things the same way, but
they all stand an equal chance of gaining exp at about the
same rate.
As far as tempering damage based on con, what's the point in
having more con? Spells are the one exception to the 'hitroll/
damroll/ac/number of attacks/damage' routine and in order to
obtain high proficiency in those, the person casting them must
give up at least one if not more of the 'standard' fight skills
and sacrifice at least some hitroll/damroll or hp to gain
the advantages of a mage.
Sure, mages still probably do have at least one fighting stat, but
they don't have two and one high third stat. Pushing mind and con
is easy, pushing mind and dex is relatively easy, pushing both of
those and another stat while keeping enough other stats to walk around,
carry bandage rolls, and keep a full range of spells is near impossible.
Sure they do a lot of damage, however if spells miss (as in, if you
walk out of the room after they press enter, before the spell goes
through) they're out mana, sometimes quite a bit. And a mage's
resources are finite. Unlike a con/dex/strength/etc fighter, whose
ability is measured only in how long they can withstand damage,
which is finite PLUS how many other bonuses they have (wide range
of fighting skills, high hitroll and/or damroll) that are not
exhaustible.
Kari
From: Psytrac
Friday, January 30, 10:41PM
You can ask for help, but for me, dropping a tell rarely cuts it.
Neither does the channels really motivate me, since i feel as if
i am being summoned or something (just me, perhaps). Some of us,
who have nothing better to do, will (and do) spend most of our
on-line time either in Tara or Sherwood, and other inns and hometowns.
The commands "say" and "yell" are best in my opinion to ask for
help, as the ones that can hear you are also very nearby, and most
of us, unless we are running away from something/one or have other
pressing matters, will be glad to help.
But do remember, none of us help newbies for a living (though some
may live to help newbies :P) and it's always US doing you a favor
when we help, not the other way around. Besides, take some time
to learn things yourself... things are best remembered that way.
Psy
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