Posted by Bulk on 11/12/96
After being blinded, i ran mindlessly, only to notice that wherever
i went, somebody could follow and shoot you, without giving me
the ability to even crash or rush to the assailant. I dont mind
not rushing to the room where the opponent shot from while i can see,
but i think, if you cant see which way you fled cuz you 'panicked,'
you should be 'panicky' enough to rush the assailant when you are blind,
or at least give the players an option to turn such a feature on or
off, depending on the players preferences. Mobs even backstab while
they are blind, not to mention their ability to hunt you down while
you are blind *cough* dhurtah *cough*. I think it is only fair for the
handicapped players to at least choose whether they would want to
rush an assailant when they get shot, even if such options only
applied when you were blind. Nothing, i guess, is more frustrating then
running around in an unfamiliar territory, unable to touch the assailant
(since somehow shooting does not initiate combat, i dont think,
for some reason...i could 'see' they reloaded their weapon and shot
afterwards, but i am not sure if he/she went to the next room and
did so..something tells me that he/she didnt, but hey, i was blind)
I mean, if that is the case, lemme warcry and not initiate combat til
i get a paralyzing one or something.
Bulk...just hates it when he is not even given a fighting chance.
From: Bulk
Saturday, October 05, 06:44PM
forgot to mention...does 'follow' break when the shooter shoots the
guy that's being followed? or like shooting, it doesn' t break it
like all other forms of initiating combat?
From: Lethargio
Sunday, October 06, 07:39AM
I think that blind is too powerful in a sence, because it disenables a person
not to use many skills there should be a backlash for blind, or at least a low
accuracy for working, because a mage would figure, "hey, what the hell, its not
going to hurt trying" and yes, I think there should be a way to rush towards
the person who shoots you
From: Bulk
Sunday, October 06, 12:41PM
ooh. totally forgot about 'power' of skills. ok.
Kick--fail or no fail, no setback, a nothing-to-lose skill
every single spell other than stun (:P)--fail, little loss of mana, success,
well, hey, lotsa advantage there...and, unlike other skills (hopefully
fixed with the skill trees) this one at least gets better every lvl.
shooting--fail? oh wow jammed gun. gee. just shoot again. success? heck, anything
from a snipe to lotsa damage...489 (or 474) hps with sanc can only last
25 bullets or so. *sniff*.
From: Gail
Sunday, October 06, 02:54PM
you forgot "gun blows up".
From: Bulk
Sunday, October 06, 10:58PM
we should make it..uhm. you fumble in panic and shoot yerself in the
head! ;)
From: Lethargio
Monday, October 07, 11:14PM
of course you forget that blinding someone inhibits them from using a gun
Lethargio, the misspeller
From: Mystbane
Tuesday, October 08, 12:05AM
uhm. Bulk is talking about shooting not having side effects..i personally
havent seen a blinder-shooter yet (thanks to the scarcity of those darn
blinding wormies).
Mystbane.
Btw, it is blinding someBODY, if you are interested in correcting 'spelling'
From: Morphine
Tuesday, October 08, 01:51PM
Personally, I can understand rushing to attack someone if they backstab/kick/whatever,
but if you're blind, with a bullet at least, it would be a lot harder to tell
where it came from (If they're stabbing/clubbing/whatever you, you can at
least have a general idea where it's coming from), but with a bullet, what ca
you do?
Although the rushing with a bullet thing is an ok idea, or at least making
you stop following them, the rushing can be at times less realistic then the
alternative of dying (even though i've mentioned before that
this mud is fun sometimes because it's NOT realistic, wouldn't be much
without magic and the like) ;)
morph
From: Mystbane
Tuesday, October 08, 02:06PM
You are blind, but you aint deaf...what's so hard about
rushing to the gunshot? I know it should break off follow,
at least, and maybe using this we could have a semi-renty
silencer available for most guns that will prevent rushing,
perhaps. But as of now, i see no reason why the guy that
was shot can not rush to the person, and think it should
be an option available to players whether they'd
prefer rushing or not..like a toggle switch.
Mystbane
From: Lethargio
Friday, October 11, 11:00PM
well, all i wanted to say was that if a mage blinds a sniper, then it takes away
the ability of a a sniper to be...well...a sniper.
mages has stun, wither, recall all these stuff that a londoner can't have,
since attacking magics only link to damage i understand that, but i think blind
should have a concequence when it fails
you know, just so that a sniper would have at least some chance against
blinding attacks because all a sniper can do when blinded is
kick/bash/headbutt, or just flee around to the nearest inn
From: Mystbane
Friday, October 11, 11:55PM
Mages are too powerful, and should be so given the effort they
have supposedly put in while building their character. But I do
think there should be more items out there to balance things out,
maybe sunglasses that will prevent blinding (or at least have a
chance to) a sanc ring that only reduces magic-related attacks,
guns that could be loaded with tranquilizers, etc.
I am starting to wonder if guns/bows are, like light sources,
not allowed to have any stat bonuses, which i guess could make
sense..
Mystbane
From: Sandra
Saturday, October 12, 06:00AM
While I do agree that blind is a powerful spell, I'd have to disagree
with saying that mages are more powerful. They have yet to gain any
spell that ID's a player/mob AND gets xp for it. All of their spells
have to be cast in the same room, and with the lower perc less of
their attacks hit.
From: Mystbane
Saturday, October 12, 06:19AM
Mages never fail a spell once they have accumulated enough
lvls in it, unless we are talking stat-comparison spells
such as stun. With the abundance of low-mind high-xp
mobs, you could have minimum perc for words and still land all
hits, in perfect safety. When talking ID, at least snipers have
to sacrifice a hand slot as well as weight/rent for bullets, and
since bullets dont naturally replenish themselves like mana,
it is something that seems feasible...and last i remember, etherial
void also has a chance to ID mobs (maybe not, but think that's what
the help file said). True that all of their spells have to be
cast in the same room, and i think that's something that could
be added for mages, for certain spells and by upping mana cost
if directed at somebody next room.
From: Lethargio
Saturday, October 12, 07:19PM
I think that mages are powerful, but not so powerful that its unbalanced. the
only thing is that mages has blind, with no backlash, or stat-comparison or
anything that would disadvantage the caster, so thats creating the unbalanced
also, theres no way to prevent blind either
Lethargio, I just countered my own point in paragragh 1, the journeyman
From: Ptah
Saturday, October 12, 11:53PM
"Mages' spells never fail once they have accumulated enough levels"...
The most a given spell can reach in success rate is 99%, and that is
only ifyou have known it since level 2. Base success is 50%, and you get
1% more per level.
That means that 3rd circle spells, which you cannot learn until level
25, max out at 75% success rate.
-Ptah
From: Mystbane
Sunday, October 13, 01:22AM
75% is darn good compared to 1/8 in paralyzing bs with 100 perc (something
around there, i imagine) and ??% in getting a paralyzing/panic inducing,
or raging warcry. Besides, most of the mage spells go through no
stat-comparison.
From: Beam
Sunday, October 13, 01:21AM
I think some valid points were made and not really addressed. Blind is a
second circle spell, and i dont remember failing it since i got to 50.
second why argue numbers? 99 percent is pretty much never fail and 75 percent
is a pretty high success rate also. It could be done so that you blind
yourself when it fails. finally i think its obvious mages are more powerful,
practically everyone is a mage, and as was mentioned above you dont get much
out of being a gunfighter instead. A lot of the stuff that gunfighters use
to be on the same level as mages are design flaws. Stuff like snipe, and
backstab flee (which is screwy because the alert flag only lasts one tick as
far as i could tell, but still one tick or two its too quick) and of course
the blind shoot thing, and the snipe rent come back snipe again. Hopefully
technological eq could be added like the sunglasses, or skills which would
give gunfighters different kinds of similar but different capabilities like
mages
From: Lethargio
Sunday, October 13, 06:37AM
I would just like to agree with the 2 messages above ;)
From: Donelan
Sunday, October 13, 11:15AM
Don't be too quick to fiddle with blinding. I've heard that the skill trees
will include blinding skills for fighters. I'd guess that these also will be
'why-not' skills that have no chance of backlash if you fail, and I can also
guess that their will be NO way to block it, unlike the blind spell, which
can be thwarted by a strong magic sink.
As for mages being too powerful, I think it is better to say that mages have
SOME advantages in SOME situations. And by using the general term 'mages,'
you seem to be including cause mages, create mages, and any fighter who can
cobble together enough mind and spirit to light a match. A blind create mage
is worse off than any blind fighter-type, IMHO. They have to run for the inn
just like any sniper. And they can't blind you without blinding everything
else in the room, including those they group with!
Mages can't ID other players, and get no xp when they ID mobs. And the gods
have been coding mobs to thwart ID anway. They eat their eq, or they just
repop immediately, so what's the point of that?
Your most powerful mages, the ones that rarely miscast, the ones that do the
most damage with offensive spells, are the 100 mind mages. And you see very
few of those around, espeically in pkill. Why? Because they suck at combat.
A 100 mind cause mage can do 60 points of damage with an immolate spells, max.
They can cast the spell every two rounds. During that time, they probably
haven't hit their opponent at all, between having a low perc and fighting
somebody with the dodge skill. Their opponent is probably maxing the damage
cap each round, then using kick, or headbutt, or warcry, or bash.
A 100 mind create mage's most powerful damage spell is etheric void. Not only
does it work like immolate, but there is indeed a chance of backlash,
according to the help file. With a 75% chance of casting it correctly, a
huge mana cost, even if you fail, and the proliferation of high-minded mobs,
I've never used it. Why should I pay 100 mana just so I can get backlashed?
'Practically everone is a mage.' What this means is that practically every
fighter can max out their fight stat and still be able to blind you. Belive
me, mages -- TRUE mages -- are even more likely to fall to someone who can
bash AND blind. So don't say mages are too powerful. It's those fighters
that are eating the mages' lunch that are the powerful ones.
The only mage I've seen that had maxed out a fight stat and his mind was a
con fighter. He had 100 mind and 100 con. Let's see... low dex, low str, low
perc. Can't flee, can't kick, can't headbutt. Can't land a blow. Can't dodge.
Has to rely on a strength spell just to move around. Can't ID players. If
a cause mage, can't ID most high-level mobs. If a create mage, can't even
throw the nifty ID vials he can make.
Mages are too powerful? Give me a break.
From: Mystbane
Sunday, October 13, 06:12PM
Mages ARE powerful, no ifs and buts and whatever.
Maybe it has to be cleared out that it is possible to have
100 dex and 100 mind, not only the 100con/mind combo.
But that is not the point. By saying mages are too powerful,
we were talking about those you classified as 'fighter-mages.'
Those that clumsy/idiocy/weaken/blind while maintaining
high enough perc to land hits and 100 dex or so to deliver
9 attacks and kicks/bashes/headbutts and whatnot.
What I was getting at was to up stat costs for spells or skills
such that this fighter/mage combo should be nearly impossible
or cost them a great number of combat-skills.
100mind and 100con. You have 500+ mana and 500+ hps, and you
can practically stun everybody in sight (with idiocy cast
on smarter mobs, you still have about 30%--what i usually get
chance of stunning a mob, still..and there are lotsa dumb
players and mobs around) and protecting yourself with a
very effective sink. Why cast immolate every two rounds
when you can cast stun, taking away their ability to damage
you in anyway for a round while landing all your blows?
and if they do remain stunned, you can cast an immolate to
do double damage. Besides, 100mind/con mages also are able to
warcry (with a strength spell, usually) which they might
want to substitute for a stun. Create mages of course
are naturally handicapped against players, but that was
your decision. Create mages, IMHO, has more of the flair
of being self-sufficient than being effective in combat,
being able to create food/water, preserve/tform, (tho cause
can tform too) and create homunculi, doppels and whatnot
to tag along as 'company.'
The way I see it, cause spells should require more stats
to prevent the making of a fighter/mage that just
devastates anything on their path. Cause-fighters are
really fun to play with, due to their ability to do
so much.
From: Beam
Monday, October 14, 12:55AM
Dont forget herblore i got herblore too and i can spam for 100hp poultices,
if i leave the eq in the clan hall.
From: Lethargio
Monday, October 14, 08:00AM
re: to donelan
I think your thinking wrong here...most mages CAN headbutt/bash/flee, also can
land blows pretty well (if your a dex fighter). I've never seen anyone immolate
or use powerful damage spells on me before, they just use stun most of the
time. also, do you have a high level sniper char? if you don't, then i don't
think you know what you are talking about. if you do, you would know how hard
for a sniper to compete with a mage, because, all you have that you can do that
they can't is, well, shoot
lethargio, I think that the sentence structure is akward, the journeyman
From: Beam
Monday, October 14, 04:40PM
um lethargio backstab with 50 60 perc do 30 to 1hp of damage while 90perc
backstab can do 60hp damage, that is a big weapon especially if used once
per tick
From: Oenone
Monday, October 14, 06:04PM
Hey, I'm a mage [2nd circle, but still] and I have 10 dex. I can't flee, I can't
bash, I can't kick, or even hunt. :P
From: Tsukuyomi
Thursday, October 17, 11:48PM
yeah, but most people would stack up on their dex its just that your one of the
few people that don't
From: Mystbane
Friday, October 18, 02:42AM
*ponder* so? most ppl stacking up on dex is already a sign that there
is something wrong...besides, you'd be surprised by the number of ppl
going about with low dex.
From: Lethargio
Friday, October 18, 08:55PM
yeah, but the people with low dex hardly are good fighters
From: Dyn
Tuesday, November 12, 06:06AM
I have reason to believe they are better fighters than you are,
Lethargio.
