Posted by Tah on 08/13
I've been pretty vocal about this recently, and i think
it's time for the builder of the area to do something
about it. The area needs a level req. I see level 10's gaining
multiple levels there fairly often. I've tried to get people
to stop taking them, by refusing to go if they did, and
that doesn't seem to help. I know the area has things that
supposedly work against lowbies, but they really don't
work all that well. People don't seem to care enough
to restrict it themselves, as evident by recent changes
in like areas such as PD and SL. I especially like the
newer lowbie changes in SL, but that's a whole different post.
Anyway, please, LadyAce, restrict it. I levelled this char to
50 in 150 hours without doing big runs, and I feel I've earned
every bit of xp I've gotten. I was USEFUL in some way, be it
healing or hitting, entrancing, something. There's no reason
a level 10 should be in AT.
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From: Chu-LiuXiang
Tuesday, August 10 2004, 10:38PM
I tend to level my characters without going on big runs, however,
my view on plevelling is different... I don't actually mind that
people get plevelled, and don't see any REAL reason that there
should be a level req on any of the large areas.
That being said, there are aspects to plevelling that I don't
personally like. The problem is not so much plevelling.
It is plevelling people who are utterly inexperienced and therefore
learn nothing about how to take care of themselves from it.
The second aspect is that it's also possibly very discouraging
for real newbies to take a week to level from 4 to 5, and
all the while they see someone else levelling at the rate of
one level every 5 minutes.
So perhaps it's not actually level requirements that we need,
but discretion in whom one plevels, (don't make more level 50
clueless can't get to Agrabah from Sherwood newbies) - and
possibly for the older players who are being plevelled whether
in runs or otherwise - to turn off annlevel while that is
happening.
Just some rambling on this. =)
Rgds,
Chu
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From: Huma
Wednesday, August 11 2004, 07:46AM
I think maybe the problem is not that AT is no good or what have you.
It's that the worth of a character is very low. How much is a level 50
worth? I would say very little, most of us can churn them out in no
time flat. I think thats a system problem more then a problem with AT.
So I guess what I am trying to say is that in a system where you have
players running around with over two dozen level 50's. Is it that one
AT run that got them three levels, or the whole system that needs
rethinking?
Huma
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From: TigerLilly
Wednesday, August 11 2004, 04:18PM
I think the problem is you should have to do it for yourself.
Thus, the experienced people who know what to kill, will have
an advantage by being able to level themselves much faster
up to 50 than the "newbie" will.
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From: LadyAce
Wednesday, August 11 2004, 07:08PM
The low-level player targetting code I have in AT isn't firing as often
as it should be, and I'll be tweaking that. However, I don't have any
plans to put a level cap on the zone itself. I'd rather make it an
option to the people who are going on the run -- is this person going to
pull their weight, or are they going to be trouble? If the person can pull
their weight sufficiently to come on the run, and the group accepts the
risk, then they should be allowed to come on the run. If there's no risk
to the lower-level folks, then that's the thing to address -- which is
why the low-level targetting code is in there. We'll see how things change
once the fix is able to go in (there are some other changes packaged up
with these tweaks, and they're waiting on a code bugfix to go in)
I've certainly seen a few more deaths and some people rejecting lower
level folks from AT runs, so I'm pretty confident that my targetting
approach will work out in the end.
-LA
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From: Tah
Wednesday, August 11 2004, 09:27PM
The only person to reject this is me, LA.
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From: Scathniamh
Thursday, August 12 2004, 01:14PM
Okay, I personally have a huge problem with the fuss Tah is making over this. I am always leading AT, and I always allow leeches.
I'm not above making them alt to useful people if the run can't go, and they're always there at their own risk. I don't backtrack if people void or go afk for awhile when they're leeching and get left behind.
I think the problem isn't lowbies wanting to get levels. The problem are level 50s who refuse the lowbies their levels, and then alt to lower levels to try to leech an AT run.
Tah has tried to do it multiple times, for example, going so far as telling me he couldn't go, and then alting to a lowbie to try and come.
Another problem is this word "useful". This char is a cause mage tank. So if a lowbie cause mage wants to leech, how are they useful?
They can't do anything we don't already have. But then a level 10 would-be surgeon is considered not useful.
I personally have no problem with people saying "no leeches" or "i won't go with leeches" in the beginning. It's the people who group the leeches, take them to AT, then ditch them.
Or people who group up, wait until the run is ready to leave, and then say "i'm not going unless the leeches are kicked out."
The biggest problem I see is human decency. People are more than willing to be jerks to low alts outside of RP, and then asking for their help when the person gets bigger.
When people learn that everyone deserves respect, we won't have problems with newbies and lowbies, because there will be friendly people around to help.
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From: Sandra
Thursday, August 12 2004, 04:40PM
One thing to consider when leveling the 'real' newbies is that if you
just get them endless levels and don't teach them anything along the way
then you are contributing to the problem of the clueless level 50s.
When they die and don't know how to get their corpse back, or get lost
in the simplest places, it is your fault. Not theirs. You took it upon
yourself to put them in that position, and that has nothing to do
with human decency. In fact, most real newbies will gladly take the
direction and discussion over somebody doing it all for them because
they like to enjoy the game for themselves and can't do that when
everything is handed to them cluelessly.
I have less of a problem leveling 'lowbies'. That is older players
that have made new chars. If they choose to reveal who they are in
order to get levels and/or eq, that's their choice. And it's also
the choice of the person doing the leveling whether or not they want
to take the time to do so. In a group situation it should really be
up to that group as a whole. Is it worth the risk to take this little
person with us? if so, go for it.
I don't go on these runs. I don't care to. I choose to get my xp
elsewhere with my friends. It's easier, and less of a hassle than
listening to this type of bickering repeatedly.
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From: Wren
Thursday, August 12 2004, 10:09PM
While we're on the subject of pots and kettles, I clearly remember
Scath trying to leech a re-equip run that I was leading. (Trevor's,
as a matter of fact) and throwing a HUGE temper tantrum when I
wouldn't group her.
I think she was anywhere from level 5-15 - I'm tempted to say
6, but I'm allowing that my memory isn't that good due to
extreme irritation.
Not only that, but she spam-followed me about 20 times in a
row and when I refused to group her started whining and
yelling...
Now, I'm no saint, and I don't claim to be. I was probably
quite rude to her since I felt like pecking her eyes out.
This is just something that came to mind on reading that
potty-kettly append.
Squeeflop.
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From: Jeffrey
Friday, August 13 2004, 12:49AM
Is the low level targeting code designed to target one degree more often
for each level below 50 the character is?
If not, I think it should be.
Oh, and I agree with those people who dislike it when people take
clueless newbies on AT runs. I saw a certain newbie who shall remain
nameless ask to go on an AT run today over chat and be accepted
without any hesitation...and then he turned to a person in the same
room with him and asked to be taken to the French Beach. This was
at the Salutation.
UGH. That person has no business being powerlevelled until they
learn their way around.
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