Does clans matter? |U6

Posted by I'e on 01/21

From: I'e Friday, January 16 2004, 03:00PM Actually, I removed the idea of friends able to shared housing costs without being in a clan. Caused then, there isn't really a unique thing for being in a clan in the first place? Best thing I can think of is... remove clans rp? Anyway.. I guess all I can do is wait for some ideas on this topic |U6

From: Sandra Friday, January 16 2004, 04:01PM Before there were free-forming clans, you were only able to be in a clan if you were pkenabled. One further, you weren't even able to start a new clan without the immorts saying they were taking applications for them and having to apply. This was something we no longer wanted to have to deal with so it was put in the hands of the players. It allows them to make their own as they see fit. The problem with the number of RP clans currently is that the monthly purge is not working. I suspect when that does, there will be a rash of purged characters and lost clans. Don't, however, expect us to ever go back to having clans for pk chars alone again. It won't happen. :) -Sandra |U6

From: I'e Friday, January 16 2004, 04:37PM What I'm just trying to get at.. is that there should be a clear and good reason why someone should want to join a clan. Either for RP or PK... This is just on top of my head... and I hope someone else can give us another good idea... Maybe a reduction in the xp lost from pk death if you are currently in a pk clan? Maybe even replacing the current xp lost from pk death that you currently have? Say, if you are not in a pk clan, and you die in pk, either from PKE or PKOK, you will lose as much as you would from a normal death in mobs killing? That way, you are in a way, giving people in pk clan a unique bonus. What do you think about that? |U6

From: Chocorua Friday, January 16 2004, 05:06PM that would be an arbitrary bonus without any reason except to "give a bonus" I think that there is already a social bonus to being in a clan. Though it could be a lot more "visible" if the community were to spend more time developing their clan's public face. As Sandra says when we enable purging again, expect there to be a pretty big house cleaning. Chocorua |U6

From: LadyAce Friday, January 16 2004, 05:55PM One advantage of being in a clan is the identity it can bring to a person, in terms of their RP. If you learn a bit about what a few clanmates are up to, you can interact with other clanmates on the same sorts of topics, for example. Another advantage is access to someone with strong leadership skills, i.e. your GM -- providing of course you've got a good GM! Having a good leader to turn to is very useful when you want to make something happen, or see something change. Clans give you a channel and clanboards, so you can have discussions and make plans independently of the group you're in, too.l We definitely encourage clanning -- but I wonder what sorts of tools might make it more desireable that don't amount to imms giving ingame bonuses as bribes :). Clans are good community-builders, but they're not the only kind, and plenty of community-contributers are not the clanning type! I wouldn't want to advantage one method of community-building so far over all the others (i.e. sociability, listening to others, noticing the needs of others, helping others, comforting and encouraging others, generally being interactive, coming up with efforts, initiatives, ideas, and events that bring people together, etc. etc.) Ideas welcome -- think broadly! -LA |U6

From: Archaon Friday, January 16 2004, 10:22PM I REALLY hate the idea of something like reducing the xp loss by death by joining a clan. For the sole reason that even though we have a HUGE amount of clans, and I have a fair few alts, NONE of my chars RP would fit with those clans. What's the point in joining an RP clan if you're RP is completely different? On the PK issue... PK clans give other unique bonuses (which also happen if you know lots of peps but its lots easier to organise and peps from the same clan are more willing to do it). These bonuses include REVENGE! nuff said on that one. Security, peps might be less likey to attack you if you're in a clan cause they know that they'll then have the clan after them. Also knowledge, peps in your clan are willing to give you valueable knowledge, where the ingame heals are, where good hiding spots are, no flee rooms etc etc etc. But as I said most of this you also get if you know lots of people. |U6

From: Varnel Saturday, January 17 2004, 12:53AM Here's an idea... right now there is a maximum of what, 20 clans allowed rp clans even... and what 15 pk clans Why not reduce the amount of rp clans allowed to like 10 and pk to 10 There is just too many and they're invaluable, I bet if you just completely took out the clan system 90% of the players would not care. Another idea would be to reduce housing costs of a clan hall or just remove it completely. Why not? I dunno clans are stupid lol, I don't know why I ever joined one to begin with... RL friends I guess... |U6

From: I'e Saturday, January 17 2004, 07:20AM I do like Varnel's idea of reducing the maximum number of clans. RP or PK. This hopefully will give people more of a focus when chosing a clan, not scattering around. Maybe we will even see a RP-PK tied into it when all the clans slots are full? I mean, a take over sort of thing? |U6

From: I'e Saturday, January 17 2004, 01:32PM By the way, just to comment on RP clans... Have you guys checked out the news board lately? This OTS' quest thing is really nice, and I just want to give a nod to Azenis for trying to blend their RP with the community as a whole. |U6

From: Rictor Saturday, January 17 2004, 03:08PM Alright, watching Garet berate I'e for having clans in his title it gave me an idea for a cool thing to give to people in clans. Maybe in the who list, before your name it could have a one word title before your name like for me it would be [Knight] Rictor restoftitle or it could say [Syndicate] Garet or [Grendel] Mercedes etc. I think that this would be a nice little thing to give clans and it would clear up any problems people might have with posing as a clanmember. This would obviously be for both RP and PK clans. The word in the brackets could be something the GM would choose and maybe it could even be in color? Just a thought, lemme know what you think Sir Rictor Belmont |U6

From: Kaige Saturday, January 17 2004, 03:53PM Currently there is a limit of 32 clans total. There is no limit as to how many RP clans or PK clans that can be formed except how it works out depending on whatever else currently exists. -Kaige |U6

From: I'e Saturday, January 17 2004, 04:58PM I like Rictor's idea about the one word pretitle-like for clan's members. About Kaige comments about the total limit of 32 clans in total. Will you guys consider of lowering that? Like I said before, to give a more focus in clans as a whole? |U6

From: Fraegis Sunday, January 18 2004, 05:30PM Reducing the number of clans total seems a bit odd to me. The reason that has been has been given is that the clans aren't as active as they could be, and to give more focus to clans as a whole. Why make the imms set up rules to make people do what they already should be doing themselves? People in a clan should be in that clan for a reason. If they are inactive, never logs on or something like that, it is up to the GM of that clan to have a talk with them, or to kick them out. Why have even more rules, especially about things that really could be easily solved by the characters in any clan? Fraegis |U6

From: I'e Sunday, January 18 2004, 09:16PM Brought up a good point Fraegis, and I agree. I guess why clans seem to failed, atleast from what I can see.. is because we don't have well active GM with good leadership skill. |U6

From: LadyAce Monday, January 19 2004, 05:52PM I definitely think that leadership is key for successful clans -- and I think that we have great leaders or potential leaders on this mud. So, what can we do to help those who are trying to be leaders among us? Encouraging people for their efforts is always a way to contribute -- and noticing someone making an effort to lead and deciding to follow their effort is also a good contributtion. But surely there are other ways and means for us to all help each other... GM meetings? GM mailing list? GM workshops of some sort? What would help? -LA |U6

From: Ganymede Monday, January 19 2004, 10:48PM The problem isn't with the clan system, it's with the members of those clans. I agree that it's largely way too easy to get into a clan. I also agree there are way too many defunct clans full of inactive alts. But you can't code that problem away. It requires motivation and excitement on the part of members to make their clan something prestigious and sought-after. Instead, lazy players have fallen into a pattern of seeking code changes to infuse the lackluster energy level in the playerbase with temporary caffeine-like surges of activity. There are plenty of things about Legend I feel could be greatly improved with a new feature here or a rule change there, but this isn't one. |U6

From: Craven Tuesday, January 20 2004, 01:44PM What makes me laugh is you people that keep saying leave it alone, people should/will fix things on their own. Yet I've yet to see that EVER work for ANYTHING in this game with the possible exception of PK police, though the imms in charge of pkok would disagree. I think what you need to consider is that in real life, people do things for a reason. There are a few, most notibly money and love. However, what "reason" is there to do anything here? Money is pointless, love is fleeting as you alt to another character, its a never ending process. As much as you hate the idea, people aren't going to just "do" what you seem to think should be done. You either have to code it, or give incentives. Or take the path you're currently taking and keep letting them do as they please and letting the place be far less then it could be. Options are great. Being able to create a clan on the fly, awesome. But I'd give up all the options and created clans to go back to the stability and PURPOSE the world used to have before all these damn things were implemented. I miss clan halls with trans mobs, an OBVIOUS benefit to clanning, I miss seeing people being assinated on the info channel, and I miss the rp that used to be everywhere as well. I understand and agree with you that it shouldn't be on imm shoulders. However we don't all get what we want. You can, and probably will, continue to ignore these issues. I however, as hard as it may be to believe, at least attempt to fix them, including the rp. As much as I love new code and what not...I miss the atmosphere and the "meaning" that simply isn't here anymore. I realize its an incredibly daunting task, and thats probably why players will never do it...but hey, theres always hope right. It's got us here. - David, the player behind numerous alts you all loathe and despise |U6

From: LadyAce Tuesday, January 20 2004, 02:47PM I definitely think we should look in places besides code changes to bring change to the community. Code and incentives have their place, but there's a huge amount of space where what happens is 100% controlled by attitude and social contracts and what people feel motivated to do. Whether people get helped when they need it or not, whether people learn to be autonomous or not, whether people contribute to their energy and ideas to the energy and ideas of others, whether people contribute to their own fun and other people's fun or just run around being miserable and making miserable. We can't code community, but we also can't say Hey, you go make it work out there and go back to whatever we were doing before. What we need is a movement! We seem to be of similar mind about some of these issues, let's join forces and figure out what kinds of steps we can take to get others on our side. There's all kinds of things we could do to raise awareness about the kinds of changes we'd like to see. Let's keep this conversation going. Spill it all over chat, take it to heart and start encouraging others to do the same. We can make things better, or we can let them slide. What kinds of positive steps could we take? - if you're in a clan, organize an event, a tournament, a reception, a game, anything like that which the clan can work on as a group and develop some identity, plus have lots of fun. - if you're into PK, do something to make an RP enemy. Steal a kiss from a girlfriend, swipe their whozit of power, spread rumors about their secrets. Or if you're just TOO nice for that, set yourself up to be a victim. Obtain a whozit of power and be ever so devastated if it was lost. Develop a secret vice that you'll deny. Decide how you might open yourself up to interactions, and seek out a partner or three. - articles, discussions, posts, conversations. Talk to new people, talk to someone who has been here for ages but you don't know. Keep an eye out for missed opportunities and people turning Legend away from the way you think it should go, and talk with them about it. Get excited and involved when people are doing good things. What other things could we do? -LA |U6