Housing Costs|U6

Posted by Lex on 01/14

From: Lex Tuesday, November 26 2002, 01:55PM another thought -- anyone else wonder why the newbie boxes here are almost always empty? yeah, because everyone takes the stuff and sells it at the closest merchant... |U6

From: Habeeb Tuesday, November 26 2002, 07:05PM initial building cost: 0 door 0 lock 0 rent 10% tithe yearly rent what ever i want to donate ever consider, houses my have been put in for the good of the groups not the good of the lone? if you don't like a house, don't have one..cuz thats all the imms will say |U6

From: Nelson Tuesday, November 26 2002, 07:06PM Personaly I haven't had a house since my alts bank account dropped from like 2 million to 0 and couldn't pay for it. Obviously not all of this was housing charges, but quite a chunk was...anyways I agree money running is just to painfully boring, i'm doing a set of mobs that gets me like 12k per repop(assuming the store is open, which it isnt ever :P) but as soon as I get the +5 item I need from this random item dropping jerk, i'll go back to more important things...money and xp both

From: gag

From:

From: die

From: yanno...and actualy one of the most annoying things here is I have to kill a mob with two good items for someone and he only needs one of them items so I drop the other in the closest newbie box or whatever I run sl and nobody wants any of the items so they all go in..yanno whatever..the point is I am constantly(when I am playing, which hardly can be called constantly anymore :P) dropping good items into the newbie boxes and constantly coming back 10 minutes later to see them all gone, which is fine fine it's what they are there for, but then 2 minutes later I see rune circled ring or whatever on auction that's just annoying...maybe the boxes can have like a level 10 limit? Anyone over level 10 can't get stuff out of the boxes...now this probably wouldn't do much except make a buncha low level characters really rich but...better them than some level 50 jerk who could get the item on thier own :P I know getting gold when you are small is even more painful than when you are big, so I wouldn't even care really but maybe thats just me. |U6

From: Lex Wednesday, November 27 2002, 08:20AM this is mostly to Habeeb: i see your point, however BEFORE housing went in there already were guild halls, and in my opinion better ones than we have now with te 6 trans mobs that could be killed to cut off escape routes. so, one could draw the conclusion that housing was put in so that people NOT in guilds could also have 'halls'... |U6

From: Huginn Wednesday, November 27 2002, 10:36AM But before housing went in, anything dropped in a clan hall poofed with the next reboot/crash. And IMO housing is expensive but having the ability to save random items over time is worth it. Huginn |U6

From: Drakkon Wednesday, November 27 2002, 11:40AM i suppose, but most of the random items sitting in houses are stupid items like eggs, and jack-o-lanterns and stupid strings no one wants i think houses are basically garbage cans these days for things we dont want to have to look at :P |U6

From: LadyAce Wednesday, November 27 2002, 02:19PM Presumably if people are paying to keep them, they don't mind looking at them :) the junk command is handy for unwanted stuff. I agree that housing is expensive (having had a house and lost it, myself) -- but I'm not sure I can agree that it's too expensive. All kinds of benefits come from having a house, and maintaining them is not all that difficult -- money running is not all that difficult. It does take regular effort, but I've found that the only times I had trouble maintaining a reasonable house was when I wasn't logging in very often. Maybe it'd be more fun to have a house if you used a different philosophy of money running -- selling nice eq and killing wealthy mobs can give you a big lump sum, but are less reliable methods. Just hacking up a few mobs with good eq, getting it and selling it, might take a few minutes, and only move you up bit by bit, but it's often much more efficient. You can make it part of your ongoing experience -- set up a coins trigger, watch yourself get loaded up with gold fast. Keep an eye out all the time for light, sellable-to-shops type stuff. Do some of the money-earning quests now and then. If it's a pain to get money in small daily chunks, get it in massive incredible chunks, and vice versa. I know that when I got in a rut earning cash, that's when I got reallllly bored with it. Just some thoughts, anyways.... -LA |U6

From: Mandarb Thursday, November 28 2002, 11:23AM it might worth it if you didn't pay MORE rent to have an item in it. That bothers me more then anything else about housing, and is why I refuse to buy a house. I buy it, pay it in FULL, then have to pay incredible rent on something I own, and lets not forget if I choose to PUT anything in it, I will now probably pay 3-4 times the normal rent value. Its a stupid system and it really ruins housing in my opinion. But some people seem to love it, so I guess at least a feature that took forever to code appeals to a few people. I bet if I could save items in my house without going broke in 2 days would make a lot of people like them more. |U6

From: Lex Thursday, November 28 2002, 11:52AM my suggestion to i think cheyla was to double the initial cost of houses, and make the house/door/lock/etc zero rent. so it would cost about 1 million gold for a nice 2-4 room house, and you'd only pay daily rent on stuff thats inside it, i.e. extra equipment. another really cool thing i thought of, might take a wee bit of coding, was to add a special "ancient timeless chest" items, items where if you put a timed item in them it would not decay until removed from said chest. you could keep whatever you wanted in it. another possible solution would be give more cash to high level mobs. abbot sugar is on most everyone's money run, for a reason. what if big mobs like jim southland, sayyid said, etc had 5k-10k gold? or what if they had a chest/jar in their room and you re-used the code in the abbey basement so that the coins appeared when they are killing in said chest? |U6

From: Paranoia Friday, November 29 2002, 01:03AM I agree with Mandarb on this one, having to pay rent for eq you already own is kinda gay. I think lock/door/rooms and stuff should incure rent charges, but your stuff inside should not. Some of us don't spend every waking minute, or even more than a day or two a week on here. With rand stat items, switching eq is something you have to get a full SL group for so you can get it done RIGHT THEN, or gimp yourself by losin' no longer need eq and make the switchin' even harder. Random stuff make the time it takes to switch even greater as well, I have had to store about half of a full eq set for around 4 to 5 days before, because 3 random items refused to pop the right one. Blah, blah, blah.. Take off housing rent on eq and other items inside and I wouldn't see the problem. Be kinda coo if the rent was collected monthly rather than daily, as well. |U6

From: Wren Friday, November 29 2002, 05:02AM Oo. Housies!

From: Sniff

From: No nests for lazybirdgirls! Err, but that aside. I think if all the eq that goes into your house is all free rent that's a little bit er - unreasonable. Shouldn't be able to store a full eq set for 2k rent! What I think might be more reasonable is for eq to rent for free _up to_ the daily rent of the house. I.e. if your daily rent is 2.8k and you put a 2.7k piece of gear in your house, you don't pay rent on it. But! If the gear or the amount of stuff in your house adds up to 2.9k, then you pay 2.9k (or whatever) per day. Basically deduct the daily rent from the rent you pay for thingies that you put in your house. This would also give more incentive to get big ookiy 15k rent houses!

From: SQUEE!

From: (And um, is ooky to pay for zips.

From: Hang

From: ) (Not sure if I was clear so um. You pay daily rent, and the balance of any rent on gear that is in your house and exceeds your daily rent!)

From: Ponders that sentence being any clearer.

From: Wren-t-a-Healer! |U6

From: Fortebraccio Saturday, November 30 2002, 12:21PM OK, I swear I was gonna append exactly the same suggestion that Wren had, and exactly for the same reasons, if you paying 15k rent for an house why not to have at least 15k of object rentable at no cost? So far beside RP reasons i see no advantage on having a big house vs a small cottage. |U6

From: Akai_Hayate Tuesday, December 03 2002, 02:25AM Maybe it could be optional when you pay rent too? If I wanna pay 2k per day or 60k a month or...a ton per year, for people like me who log on once a month and find that thier 2k per day rent has pigged out thier bank account, we could log in for our montly and go "Oh crap I better sell a coupon to some dork fast!" And make our monthly payment Cause as it stands now I could never have a house, hell I just lost like 4 casino coupons because of how often I log in. |U6

From: Akai_Hayate Tuesday, December 03 2002, 02:28AM One more thing, and I realize this probably only applys to me but I get sick of playing one char and if you have a daily rent thing you gotta play that char to maintain them and thier house and whatever when I get on I wanna log on to whatever character I like the most at the time. Not have to log into stupid akai cause his stupid 5k per day payments requires that I run around like a monkey with its head cut off trying to kill some freakin gold mobs that this character gets butchered by, what with his wierd stats and lack of skills. One more thing sorta on this same point, what if you could transfer houses between alts? Houses don't really do anything for a character so it's not like buying a house with a level 50 and switching it to your level 10 would do much good since they wouldn't be able to pay the rent anyways, so I don't see why this wouldn't work. Would let me not be bound by who has the housing payments to keep up either, play who I want when I want

From: cheer

From: |U6

From: Drakkon Thursday, December 05 2002, 10:01AM yea i dont think that would work akai, cuz you could probably store eq in the house, transfer it to your lowbie, get all the eq, then transfer back, making it an easy way to switch eq between alts :P |U6

From: Mandarb Saturday, December 07 2002, 01:00PM The Wren idea has been suggested before and was shot down. I dunno why. |U6

From: Lex Monday, December 09 2002, 07:49AM just too lame for me, i sold my house =P |U6

From: Gavvius Wednesday, December 18 2002, 03:33AM door can add to the already high rent cost, hence me without a door =p |U6

From: Kaige Wednesday, December 18 2002, 08:43AM Oh, please, 100 coins a day is too much for you? Sorry, but that's sad, especially considering where your house is. That's like one mob a day there. You'll forgive me if I don't sympathize with you, but rather every single player who complains that you're lacking a door when they accidentally wander into your house. -Kaige |U6

From: Gavvius Wednesday, December 18 2002, 11:09AM they add up, +( |U6

From: Finlay Thursday, December 19 2002, 11:29AM Hmm. Gonna have to agree with Kaige here. I've stumbled into your house before.

From: shudder

From: If you dumped some of your duplicate photos you could probably afford the door. And those hovels are pretty cheap, right? Probably not more than 3K a day? I just made 3k in 6 kills, took about 15 minutes (course I took time out to talk with someone and made a phone call in there as well), so I'm not sure what's not adding up for you the right way... Finlay the wanderer |U6

From: MoiraGwyn Friday, January 03 2003, 11:28PM My DAILY rent, on the average, for my villa and a Castle in the crusades... for the sake of RP... is some $90,000 gold. Yes, that is daily. I wish I could get away with your rent and still have all that is needed. I cant. I run like a madwoman, have others that help when they can, collect needed things, and sell off items, coupons, strings as needed. Does it get insane sometimes? HELL yes! Is it worth it in the longrun? I think it is. Housing tends, for many people, to have RP basis as well as just a place to rent and keep some of your possessions. For me the RP is very important and without the housing the rp would not quite be the same. I can agree that housing can be very expensive, but keep in mind that people house per their needs. 1 room, 3 rooms, or a couple dozen rooms :) How important is your purpose to you? -MoiraGwyn's player |U6

From: Craven Saturday, January 04 2003, 08:57PM Not at all. Give houses a use other then rp and maybe I'll buy one. |U6

From: Gavvius Sunday, January 05 2003, 11:19PM For all those that complain to me about my house, here is a few points... - without those photos, I won't even bother keeping up a house =p, - duplicate photos? why? cause I like to have them, nuff said, - how important is the house to me? (MG), not important enough to pay the extra rent for door extra rent for door. - there is a few others, but I forgot what I was going to write =p ps- maybe later in time, doors will be free, and you can all thanks me for it =) it +_ |U6

From: Rufus Monday, January 06 2003, 09:57AM I think the fundamental flaw in the whole housing thing is in its name. Other than the 'neat' factor of being able to claim stake to your own corner of Legend, 'housing' was, from its original inception, a way to bleed money out of the system. Other than food and water, money exchanged hands; it never left the system. 'Housing' was a voluntary method for getting money out of the game, and in turn, making some effort at retaining the value of the gold piece. But, in all fairness to me, it was easier to name the constants HOUSE_PRIMARY_ONLY rather than SYSTEM_BY_WHICH_MONEY_WILL_BE_REMOVED_FROM_THE_GAME_PRIMARY_ONLY. The former, on a code level, is just much easier to work with, and, well, 'housing' has a snazzier name. There is no analogy to any real-life housing arrangement. There was never one by design. For its intended 2 purposes: giving people a bit of legend, taking money out of the game, the system works. The clincher though is that it's voluntary. There's absolutely no encounter, quest, game changing event that requires you have a house (the opposite, though, isn't true, again, by design - some quests can open the ability to build housing in certain areas). Here's what it boils down to: If you think housing is unfair in cost, if you think the reward you get for the amount of effort you put into maintaining it is not worth your time, don't use the housing code. -Ruf |U6

From: Aegir Monday, January 06 2003, 01:33PM I almost buy your arguement Ruf, but not quite. Here's why: 1) You and the builders have put significant time into housing to make it not only functional but interesting and appealing. 2) Despite what you say, most of the features of housing do in fact provide an analogy to rela-life housing. 3) Again, despite what you say, the implementation of housing did cause a game changing event, that being the 'ripping out' of the old clan hall system. So, what have we? An elaborite housing system that sucks money out of the game, for those choose to participate, which has in fact increased the amount of money going into the system because everyone and all thier alts money-run day in and day out. Hmmmmmmmm... working as intended? Why not just sell coupons? Why not just subtract 5% from all bank accounts daily/weekly/etc? I don't think anyone is calling for a re-write of housing, just that the cost be scaled better to the reward. The daily charges for a moderate 3-4 room house are ridiculous, given that its per char not per RL player. The best suggestion I saw was that if you own a 10k / day rent house you get up to 10k worth of gear storage. Another suggestion, increase the initial cost and decrease the daily cost by a factor of 10. Or, here's one I know you'll love, put back the old clan hall system and see how many houses get demolished? But you are right on one point, it is optional, and like many others here who find money running insanely boring, I choose not to have a house. -Aegir Ship-Bane |U6

From: Rufus Monday, January 06 2003, 04:29PM "You and the builders have put significant time into housing to make it not only functional but interesting and appealing." - never said it wasn't interesting and appealing. Interesting/appealing does not equal necessity, though. "Despite what you say, most of the features of housing do in fact provide an analogy to rela-life housing." - If they do, a very bad one. In real life, you buy a house as an investment. It either increases or decreases in value. If you rent, you don't own. If you own, you don't rent. There may be an analogy in that in both RL and 'housing' on Legend, your domicile consists of a series of rooms connected by passageways or doors. Beyond that, it doesn't hold up. There is no situation in RL that is even close to how it's set up here. Sorry. "Again, despite what you say, the implementation of housing did cause a game changing event, that being the 'ripping out' of the old clan hall system." - Hate to be the burster of bubbles, but the old clan hall system was going bye bye whether housing was going to be implemented or not. Adding clan ability to purchase/own/maintain housing was implemented solely because it was relatively simple with the design mechanisms put in place to track house ownership. "Why not just sell coupons?" Because strings have a specific place in the game as a reward for a different type of activity. The rate they come into the game isn't determined by the amount of effort someone puts into the game system (eg by killing mobs, collecting gold). "... subtract 5% from all bank accounts ..." Because we want it to be voluntary and give something in return. "The daily charges for a moderate 3-4 room..." Buy a smaller house if you think it's too expensive. "given that its per char not per RL player." Everything, with the exception of warnings/bannings which are strictly an out-of-game type deal, is based per character. That won't change. "The best suggestion I saw was that if you own a 10k ..." A fundamental design decision in Legend's core creation was that Legend will never have 'lockers.' Housing bent that rule ever so slightly, but it won't budge beyond that. A 10K room gives you a room. Period. If you want to store stuff beyond your X rent limit, you pay for it. "Another suggestion, increase the initial cost and decrease the daily cost by a factor of 10." Ahh, the diamond in the rough. Actually, housing daily cost has already been halved once. Think about that, refine the idea. Toss it around... "put back the old clan hall system" Not gonna happen. Ever. Sorry. Period. The nightmare of dealing with the old clann hall system on an immort level was staggering. "But you are right on one point, it is optional..." Actually, I'm right on a few more points, but thanks =) "who find money running insanely boring, I choose not to have a house." Bravo =) Face it. Housing is like the lottery with a consistent losing return. The lottery's a tax for people who don't know how to do math. Think about it. Enjoy your house, but realize that they're not going to turn into an appreciable investment. -Ruf |U6

From: Agaz Monday, January 06 2003, 07:50PM ohh, old clan hall system, how about old clans? And kick those freeforming one back to one back to the abyss? |U6

From: Sandra Tuesday, January 07 2003, 08:13AM The old clan system, like old clan halls, are gone. Forever. That system was an awful lot of work for the staff, and ain't gonna come back. |U6

From: Aegir Tuesday, January 07 2003, 09:33AM old clan system the part that i would like to have back is the 'trans' mobs. you could (if you wanted) code it so each clan can pick 1 mob per era as a trans mob, set a password, and have it summon you to the hall. of course the 'clan hall' would be a house in the current system, bought and paid for, minus the daily rent, where the door was removed and no exit provided, save some sort of mort command to return to the trans mob you entered from. you could have the nightly job that subtracts rent from all bank accounts delete any item in the hall each night. is this a lot of work? probably. too much? relative to your opinion on the value of the old system vs. the current system. |U6

From: Aegir Tuesday, January 07 2003, 09:36AM to address some of Rufus' points: by features of housing comparing favorably to real life i was speaking of doors, furnature, lighting, the different rooms (bedroom/closet/kitchen) /etc). in the financial/investment sense, you are correct, they don't. and, as to coupons coming into the game not being determined by the amount of effort someone puts into the game, what about redeeming for coupons, which is based purely on xp, i.e. the amount of effort someone puts into the game? ok, didn't know old clan system was going not being an immort as for houses not being a locker for equipment, not sure i agree 100%. currently they are, it just costs gold. and, seems to me most are a locker for strings and photos and other crap thats zero rent... even a 1 room house with a door has rent of near 3000. thats about 1.1 million gold, i have characters from 5+ years ago that dont have that much gold saved up. "attempt at refining the idea you liked" 1) double the cost of building (for new houses) 2) keep the rent charge the same, but make it once per week instead of daily (daily) 3) make EVERY house come with a default door of some type, and update that stupid house near the stag =P |U6

From: Rufus Tuesday, January 07 2003, 10:19AM Adding 'passwords' to trans mobs and having them linked to certain rooms to trans people to requires a reboot. If we

From: could

From: automate it, what's to stop someone from choosing a quest mob and a password that is already on a keyword list they have? Either making the trans mob useless or the mob's trigger text useless. The amount of code required to emulate the subjective look it took to evaluate each trans mob when it was requested would be immense. It's not coming back. Debating it is futile. -Ruf |U6

From: Aegir Monday, January 13 2003, 01:48PM

From: nod ruf

From: i didn't expect that all to be automated, too much coding for the benefit. but the old clan hall system, while maybe creating a ton of imm overhead, was a very cool feature to this mud. just my 2 cents... |U6

From: Rush Tuesday, January 14 2003, 07:31AM Just a note, my house is 1568 rent, able to rent, with lighting, a door, and a bunch of stuff I don't want to throw away. There's an even cheaper one in Malta. I bet there are less expensive ones other places too, but I'm happy with my fishin' hut. Housing is useful to characters/players for a lot of things and there are plenty of options ranging from "dingy little room to hold yer stuff and have privacy" to "huge expensive place adding a whole new element to rp". The cool thing is we all get to pick. Except the door thing. People at intersections should be required to get doors. :P Rush |U6