| Pkill/PKOK Poll Questions
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Posted by Kaige on 01/15
Some questions came up regarding Contracts and the PKOK System and how
they should be handled by the admins. In dicussing that, the immortals
raised several other questions concerning pkill and the PKOK System.
Please take a few minutes and answer the questions on the poll at the
menu and if you would like to add any other useful comments, please
feel free to use this board here. This is basically an information
and opinion weighing exercise, it is _NOT_ a democratic vote taking.
-Kaige
From: Chaykin
Friday, January 11 2002, 10:02PM
So you guys are going to do whatever you want to do anyway, and just in
case the poll reflects that it's what we wanted, you can say so, and if
not, you can say oh well, it's not a democracy. Sounds like a scheme
worthy of characters in a Joseph Heller book, hehe. ;)
Chay
From: Tercei
Saturday, January 12 2002, 01:53AM
and this surprises you? this is how things have been done since
the beginning here at legend.....makes you wonder why we should
even bother answering some stupid questions that make no difference
whatsoever!
From: Akai_Hayate
Saturday, January 12 2002, 05:42AM
I was checkin out 1 and 6 on the poll and I think I just vomited in terror
So far the questions are do we want big brother, do we want to be totally
abandoned, and do we want pkill totally removed, and considering how out
numbered the pkillers are, even by pkill haters not just noncombatants, I
guess we can say goodbye to pkill alltogether huh? Unless chaykin is right
and the poll will not affect the imm desicision whatsoever, in which case.
..I guess we can say goodbye to pkill alltogether huh?
From: Kaige
Saturday, January 12 2002, 10:06AM
Wow. I asked for USEFUL comments here, and all the Chicken Little's
run out screaming that the sky is falling.
RELAX...
And yes, you've got it right. this isn't a democracy, never has been,
never will. But do we listen to what players are saying? Yes. Are
the vocal ones pointing at the sky always right? No. Are they always
wrong? No. Do the immortals always make the right decisions? No.
But do they do it with the best interests of the game as a whole in
mind? Yes. Are we human? Yes.
So, lets see... we're looking for information and constructive
comments... anyone have any?
Btw: the range of the answers in no way reflect any plans, but are
intended to gauge interest and determine relative numbers of
opinions, not the decibel level of them.
-Kaige
From: Frankie
Saturday, January 12 2002, 10:45AM
Well, now that there's actually an invitation to express opinions,
I guess it would be a good time to share mine. I am strongly in
favor of the old style of pk system. If that means keeping pkok
and having a forced AA, I am all for that. When PKOK was first
going in, I felt that it would be a good system - I liked the
idea that I could fight duels with characters that have long been
gathering dust in the archives, and all of that. However, before
long, I realized how wrong my thoughts were. The system now
allows for more player abuse and the like than old pk could have
conceivably permitted. Want to fight someone without fear of
retribution from that person's friends or clanmates? Accept just
that person, you don't need to worry as long as that person isn't
enough of a threat. Want to avoid pkill until the timer wears down?
Not too hard to do if you know the places to go.
In addition, the lines of rules have become blurred beyond vision.
Who can heal pk damaged characters? Can a surgeon accepting the
person who damaged someone heal them, or do they need to accept all?
Who can issue contracts for the death of someone? Do they have to
accept the person they want killed? Do they have to accept the
person carrying out the contract? Many questions arise that can
not be resolved in the system as is.
In the old pk system, life was simple. Everyone could have one pk
character (which is still what I think they should be allowed),
rules were cut and dried - if you wanted to engage in pk activities,
you had to be pk enabled. End of story, if you're pk enabled, you
can interfere. If you're not, you can't. The only flaw I find with
the old system is that, as indicated by many immortals who were
unhappy with the number of complaints under it, was that it caused
too many harrasment complaints, etc. However, the solution for this
is simpler than any that are possible. When people swear on chat,
they are told that they must obey the rules or leave. Continued
objections to these rules lead only to the same response. The same
should hold true in pkill - harrasment should not be tolerated, and
rather than spoiling a bunch of apples, a few of the bad apples
should be removed. At the risk of throwing more analogies than can
be tolerated, a few eggs should be broken so that the omelet, in
this case LegendMUD pkill, can be made whole.
From: Craven
Saturday, January 12 2002, 11:57AM
very insightful chaykin...your damn smart, I'd have to agree :)
From: Chaykin
Saturday, January 12 2002, 11:20PM
Well I wasn't knocking anybody, I thought it was a funny observation :)
For the record I'm glad the poll is there. Even though the answers
themselves won't dictate what happens, it tells me that some thought is
at least being given to making revisions to the current pk system, whose
problems were already summed up pretty well in Frankie's append.
Chay
From: Vushnak
Sunday, January 13 2002, 03:57AM
The problem with the new pkill is that it makes the idea of clans
virtually worthless. No one in my clan can protect me if I get jumped
by someone who isn't accept all.
There should be a mode where you can be accept all to everyone who is
accept all. That is like old style pk.
The new style pkill is good for people who want to duel and could be
left as it is.
But the people who want to duel are fewer than the people who want to
pkill and the mud would be much improved if pk was more active.
From: Chocorua
Sunday, January 13 2002, 09:19AM
pkill activity doesn't in itself make the mud a
better mud. It can make pkill better and it even
can make RP more rounded. The problem here is that
pkill has and is a drain on the coding/administrative
staff. There are always ways to exploit the system
and there are always people who can't be trusted
to use the system as intended. We code and write
rules around that.
A large portion of the code and rules in place is
to protect the pkiller from the no-pkiller. This is
probably as it has to be. It makes me annoyed that
in doing this we almost always limit what the non-pkiller
can do in the situation where they are put at risk
because of some inconsiderate pkiller who is taking
advantage of a run to further their own ego growth.
Pkill is a choice and one that I think should carry
heavy consequences. The argument is always that the
non-pkiller chose to group with the pkiller. THis is true
but its also true that the no-pkiller may very well
not have known they were groupng witha pkiller.
One solution for this would be to make each pkiller's
accept and reject lists public to anyone. An invasion
of privacy? kinda..
anyhow thats my 2 cents worth. nt very enlightening
but might give you some idea of why pkill is so slow
to get code/rule fixes put in place.
Chocorua
From: Pop
Monday, January 14 2002, 11:03AM
I would have to totally agree with Chaykin. Not that that matters.
From: JamaciaMan
Tuesday, January 15 2002, 01:25PM
I was born and raised in old pkill....
I wanna go home....
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