Rewarding Oldbies

Posted by Archaon on 03/23

There has been much talk as of late about how oldbies are feeling hard done by. Well i have a solution to this and the 'i have no strings' problem. each x-mas and easter every charater that logs on should be given a token, and once a yr tokens are sent out to all the characters that have been active for that year, this will not only encourage RP, but it will encourage characters to be active, so less inactive clans, and the oldbies will be rewarded for there stay.

well thats what i think anyway!

- Archaon

From: Cheyla Monday, December 17 2001, 09:43AM

Umm... Christmas generally already generates a lot of coupons and prizes from generous immortals sending them to people just for being on. Heck, a couple years ago, Chocorua gave out 300 some odd coupons (which I am still seeing redeemed for strings!).

Nobody should have any problem getting at least one string if they actually try. There are quite a few venues for obtaining them, especially around holidays. I don't think it is necessary to do this with the current availability. Besides, sending a token to everyone that has been active in the last year could be difficult, especially since you can't send to people that have archived.

Cheyla

From: Tirzah Monday, December 17 2001, 10:11AM

OK, so I'm not going to win any popularity contest with this post ...

When you think about it, we oldbies have a HUGE advantage over newbies.

Here's a brief incomplete list.

- we know our way around

- we know where/how to get stuff (eq, words, skills, quests, cash, etc)

- we have at least one, and usually several, high level chars

- we can build new chars faster than newbies

- we have experience, knowledge and a range of strategies

- many oldbies (although not all) have old eq

- we have a circle of friends to help us get stuff

- we have a circle of friends to help us out if we get into trouble

This list is just some of the advantages that oldbies have over newbies, and I don't think it's a bad reward for our efforts over the years we've been coming here. Maybe we should be offering rewards to newbies instead?

Tirzah's player

oops, forgot one advantage .. we've realised skill trees is a myth ;)

From: Rudolf Monday, December 17 2001, 03:34PM

SKILLTREES IS A MYTH??!!!

I'll be crying myself to sleep tonight. ;)

From: Boreas Monday, December 17 2001, 10:52PM

on giving out tokens: the problem isn't so much that there aren't enough tokens and other prizes given out. It is that strings (which are essentially for rp) are for the most part given as a reward for winning various games (which are essentially about speed, and a little skill.) I'd like to see more RP Coupons given out to people who are rp'ing or making a go of it.

I also agree with Tirzah that it should be newbies not oldbies who get rewarded--maybe when a char gets to say level 20, they get a reward of a token or something sweet.

Boreas' player

From: Nepon Tuesday, December 18 2001, 10:39AM

I think every character should get a coupon when they hit level 50 or maybe even a one time quest that gives one. It's not that coupons are hard to get really, it's that they are hard to earn. All it takes is a little money running to get a quick 300 - 500k to buy a coupon but to earn one you gotta win a game (which is difficult even for us olbies) or redeem (which also presents its problems). I got one coupon as a complete newbie (I think it was Rufus or Ptah who needed some help with their kid's homework) and that was it for about 5 years.

The other thing about coupons, when looking at it from a "these are the holidays there will be lots of coupons floating around" point of view, is that many of them will be nothing more than prize strings or coupons that must be redeemed for a christmas related string.

and lets not forget that there werent any major coupons surges on Thanksgiving! Oh, and also realize that the holiday related events will undoubtedly take place during peak hours. there wont be anything going on late at night (by system time standards) for us insomniacs.

please dont think i am complaining, cause as i said i can easily money run for 2 days, and buy a coupon. but let's face it.... with the number of players on at any given time dropping by the day (and the number of imms online too) it seems legendmud it losing its lustre, and what better to make things more interesting than to give people a legitimate shot at a coupon! one they can earn without having to win a pk tourney or find a flag in the middle of nowhere, or even a coupon that they have to compete with someone to get, but a real chance to get their own coupon.

-my 2 cents

-nepon

From: Tirzah Wednesday, December 19 2001, 02:50AM

The helpfile xp_game still exists. Does the xp_game still exist?

Just curious

Tirzah

From: Cheyla Wednesday, December 19 2001, 09:02AM

- Yes, the XP game is still around! Every so often I get a request to start someone...

- The elf game has the tendency to run for longer than a day - I know it did at least 2 of the last 3 times it was run and will again for Christmas this year.

I'm confused about this part about the number of players on dropping... Invariably, no matter what time I am on, there are more people on than there used to be on average, especially around 7/8am system time. It may have dropped slightly in general, but in getting towards the end of the school semester, it's going to. If you compare July to October, the peaks are 61 and 54 respectively, but the average peak stayed the same, 45. Same general trend that's been around for years... But the slight drop in numbers certainly isn't significant - nor unexpected. In fact, just in the past few weeks, I've seen several players return that had been gone for some time - some, only a few months, others for over a year.

Cheyla

From: Kae Friday, December 21 2001, 08:22AM

Cheyla already said most of what I'd have to say, but just a few more notes. First off, the Elf Game runs on seasonal occasions all year round -- not just Halloween and Christmas. It is quite a job to set one up, however, so it will not run for -every- Holiday that any or other country can come up with. Thus we did none for Turkey Day, which is an American holiday, focusing on Christmas instead, since that is a (more or less) international holiday.

Second off, the Elf Game usually runs 48-60 hours. If you can't find a few hours to go elf chasing in that time interval, frankly, I won't cry my eyes out to hear about it. Not everyone lives here, true, but well.

--Darth Kae

From: Hannah Wednesday, December 26 2001, 10:05AM

It seems to me that for an elf game, which is an excellent idea in itself. The high level people have a rather unfair advantage.

Firstly if they can locate they know where to go at once, if they have been around enough.

Second if they have hunt they can run rather faster and farther than a low level player who will run out of mv.

There are those who do not know how to hunt, who stand little to no chance of finding one of these elves.

Simply my thoughts on the matter.

Sincerely
/Hannah

From: Nepon Wednesday, December 26 2001, 05:49PM

48 to 60 hours huh? i logged on christmas day at 8:00 pm system time and there was no elf game. nor was there any other type of special holiday game running...come to think of it there werent any imms either and the numbers have been dropping during the hours that i usually play. i rarely see more than 15 people on when i first log in and you are missing the point anyway! the point is that not all players are given a realistic shot at attaining a coupon. thats why there should be a quest or an automatic coupon at level 50 or something of that nature to make sure that every character will at least be able to get one over the course of their lifetime! (the character not the player).

but i suppose the imms are too busy thinking of excuses rather than making something that the players would actually enjoy and appreciate!

From: Cheyla Wednesday, December 26 2001, 09:18PM

Sounds like you had quite bad timing, Nepon... I started the elf game running at 9:20 system time on December 23rd and it ran through the 25th until the game crashed while I was (pardon me) having my holiday dinner... and, amazingly enough, the two crashes occurred right around 7 or 8pm, shortly after I left for my real life.

There were immortals in and out, some giving out gifts through the day. Unfortunately for people like you, we do have families of our own to spend holidays with and can't be here all the time, waiting for you to log in and get a prize.

Everyone does have a realistic shot at getting a coupon. Play the xpgame. Once per character for a token, which gives you a shot at a coupon - or at least a string. Write an LT article. Again, token. Play the scheduled casino games. Variety of prizes there, and it isn't dependent on your connection speed or knowledge of the game or knowledge of outside subjects like a recall tag or flag hunt or trivia would be.

Level 50 + 25 million experience is available to everyone that wishes to take the time to do it and can get you TWO coupons.

Do you appreciate and enjoy new areas? Do you appreciate and enjoy new aspects of the code that go in? New items that get added? To say the immortal staff could care less about giving the players something to enjoy and appreciate is absurd. There wouldn't even be a game for you to complain about if we didn't.

As for the elf game... we don't have code to make mobs not locateable and not huntable. It is a heck of a lot more fair than it was the first couple times it was run. And it ran for about 47 hours this time plus the last massive distribution of them when I came back from my dinner to find the game had crashed.

Cheyla

From: Wes Wednesday, December 26 2001, 11:09PM

Even though I may not think well of you Cheyla, I applaud your efforts along with Kae's in making a wonderful game that can be played by all. Thanks for giving this to LegendMUD>

From: Herra Sunday, December 30 2001, 08:48PM

I agree 100% with Cheyla.

'nuff said.

Queen Nothing, Herra. PS Imms have lives too. and like to enjoy holidays even more.. I gotta say I was on quite a bit over Christmas from the 23rd to 25th and Cheyla was on almost the whole time I was so.....go climb on someone else's soap box.

From: Nepon Monday, December 31 2001, 08:17PM

why is it that anytime someone mentions how they think the mud is lacking in something the imms take it too personally and do nothing more than argue instead of saying "hey you know what...thats something to think about"? i mean all i am suggesting is that they make coupon a little bit more accessible to players. not overloading the system with them, just putting in something so that every character really does have a chance to get one. hitting a redeem point is extremely difficult especially if you get into an xp hole or play during off hours when there aren't sl and pd runs forming every 45 minutes. imm run games like hunts, casinos, etc. are great and all, but again, they are run during certain hours. i haven't seen a game (other than one guess sandra's hours) run during the 3 am - 5 am system time time frame in years! and holiday games are no exception. so instead of arguing about how imms have lives and how easy it is to play games that are run during times that some players can't be here, why not just sit and think about what it would add to the mud to give everyone a one time quest that gives a coupon or something...or more importantly what would it take away from it?

oh and by the way the xp game only gives a token and out of the last 10 tokens that i have redeemed not one has been a real coupon. strings are not coupons...keep that in mind!

From: Nepon Monday, December 31 2001, 08:28PM

oh and by the way, you misunderstood my post apparently. i was talking specifically about one thing, not saying that we dont appreciate and enjoy ANY aspect of the game. but to answer your questions..... Do you appreciate and enjoy new areas? sometimes.

to be honest most new areas that i have seens in the last year or two are boring to be nice about it, and just as a personal note i dont enjoy exploring because i dont enjoy deathtraps.

Do you appreciate and enjoy new aspects of the code that go in? in a word. no. most of the code changes that have gone in recently have been geared directly to weakening the type of character that i like to play all in the name of "balance". again this is a personal preference, if you will, of mi New items that get added? again, no not really. im more concerned with trying to keep the items that i already have so that i dont have to re- arrange equipment all over again due to some massive "this eq makes the game unfair for losers like me" movement that has been going on for the last two years.

oh and just for the record....it is now new years eve at approximately 9 pm system and just as it was with thanksgiving, and christmas...... nothing is going on...no games no imms no nothing

just wanted you to know

From: Chocorua Monday, December 31 2001, 10:20PM

quite often you run into the arguments because frankly your "mentioning" of the game lacking in areas comes off as a a demanding whiny spoiled brat. The imms quite often run games and give lots of opportunities for strings and coupons. Oddly enough your demands were one of the reasons that i gave out premade strings this year at christmas instead of coupons. Once soemthing is takes from special to expected its no longer what it should be, and coupons are feeling that right now. Get some exp, as an oldbie you should be quite adept at that and redeem for the coupons if you want to earn them.

Chocorua

From: Darla Tuesday, January 01 2002, 05:38AM

Coupons will remain special despite how many of them are floating around in the game for the same reason that they are valued more highly than prize strings. With a coupon we can make something that is unique, and perfectly suited to ourselves and our rp. We can make something special. So you needn't worry about coupons no longer being what they should be.

In addition, I do not think that morts whine quite as much as imms seem to claim we do. In a pure text environment, our expressions and demeanor are easily lost, and it is often up to the reader to supply them. I would appreciate if you would give us the benefit of the doubt and not always assume we are whining. The 'demanding whiny spoiled brat' exists only in your head. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and not question why.

From: Chocorua Friday, January 04 2002, 10:19AM

its actually up to the writer to express their emotions and intent. I will say that often readers lack the will or informaiton needed to understand what is put into some people's writing but if you want yourself to be understood in a certain way and not in another, you need to learn to express yourself in that manner.

You don't think players whine? You are entitled to that misconception. Oddly enough the immortals are just as guilty as the players about nor communicating well. But the fact that the immortals are a limited staff with a limited amount of resources. We do what we can and when we are told we are lacking in what we are giving for free then we are being whined at. period.

Chocorua

From: Nepon Saturday, January 05 2002, 01:14AM

here we go again

first of all you are doing exactly what i was trying to get you not to do in my last post....automatically get defensive and start dismissing my idea simply because i refer to the imm staff as "the imms" and you obviously werent paying attention to anything after that! now stop, take a deep breath and relax and remember if you are thinking ab out what you wanna say, you are not listening to what i have to say (which is why this post keeps going on) so here goes....

imms do run games that is true! but during the hours that people like myself are around to play them, there arent any games being run. games are generally run (and no this isnt the case with all of them) during "the day meaning anywhere from 8 am system to 10 pm system. very rarely do any any games run from 11 pm system to 7 am system. and yes, i do realize that imms have work, school, lives, etc., but that still leaves people like me out in the cold.

next, i must agree with darla. coupons will always be special (that's why im not asking you to flood the game with them), especially when we get one from some achievement like a quest (one one-time-only quest is that too much to ask?) or attaining the final level.

also, what makes you think that i am a whining brat just because i am ASKING for something that doesnt exist at this time? especially considerin that if a coupon was given to players when they hit 50 starting tomorrow, i would not be eligible (with this character at least).

and lastly, you say Get some exp, as an oldbie you should be quite adept at that and redeem for the coupons if you want to earn them. sounds great! i think i'll try that...oh yeah one small problem... the xp awarded for mobs that i can solo...well, let's just say that it would take years to hit a redeem point....so next you will say group with people and go on runs like sl and pd....great! sounds awesome!...one problem during the times when i am logged on, there arent enough people on to for one of these power-xp groups. while you may see a sl and pd run forming every 5 minutes during the day, i see one forming once maybe twice a month in the middle of the night.

and the point of this post isnt to try to get "the immms" to satisfy my lust for coupons (truth is i have plenty of strings and if i want more i will simply money run seeing as how this is the only thing left that dex,str characters can do solo these days), but i feel that coupons are the single greatest aspect of legendmud...being able to personalize your eq set....and yet you act as if coupons should be the holy grail, rather than say hey, we WANT people to be able to enjoy this feature, that's why we put it in in the first place! we, the players, like coupons, we love coupons! the imms gave us that feature and we loved them for it. but now, (and forgive me for this particular metaphor) they seem more like the drug dealer who got us hooked and now wont sell to us because we are junkies! hehe not the greatest comparison i know, but hey...hehe

i mean, come on...first you give us the stuff and then scorn us because we ask for more, like we are insulting you.

whats up with that?

From: Chocorua Saturday, January 05 2002, 09:14AM

actually thats a good analogy. there are actualy more chances for coupons now than there were when they first became available but you still want more opportunities.

As for you not being around when games are run or when runs are happening, what can i say. thats how the timetable that people are here for. I do know that you should be able to solo for exp if you explore the different areas and try different tactics.

The biggest problem I have with this whole thread is that it appears that you think you deserve coupons. Oddly enough that goes back to the junkies analogy. You have some but you want more and because I say there are ways to get them you scorn me for pointing it out because its not easy enough for you. Coupons are ooc and shouldn't be the reward for any ingame quest.

If you play when there aren't many people or imms on there should be even MORE opportunity for mobkill exp and exploring as there should be less competition. I'm sorry if you aren't getting the maximum return per hp spent in exp but thats simply the consequence for your time playing. We can't and won't change the dynamic of our lives to compensate for it. I do know that there are people on in the early ours of the day. Perhaps organizing them would be a good use of your time.

Chocorua

From: LadyAce Monday, January 07 2002, 02:32PM

In addition to what Choc has said -- I do have to add that timing of events has always been a sticky spot around here, and we've always done our best, and we've always heard complaints -- so don't think that we don't consider the issue. There's no way to please everyone on a round globe and a 24-hour clock. I'm pleased that we have the number of non-US-resident imms that we do, and I'm grateful for our night-owl imms who show up at odd hours to lend a hand.

We do have a few ways for people to get coupon/string type rewards during off-peak hours -- in particular, the xp game, the bug lotto, and articles for the LT. Being around during non-peak times also means less competition for mobs and equipment sellers, which means you can earn more money faster and purchase things, too.

Reaching level 50 is its own reward. You get a little boost in the hit table, you get a little more rent, and you join the ranks of those who have reached the top. You have the added freedom of having less reason to worry about your experience totals, and that can make it more fun to experiment and take risks.

-LA