Hitroll and high perc

Posted by Carbon on 09/10

From: Sammael Friday, September 07 2001, 09:07AM what doesn't make sense is that they hit max hits and obliterate/decimate a fighter while sitting on the ground and the fighter demolishes. I think this is a step in the right direction in making hitroll less important, as it is currently, in my opinion, the most important stat in the game, including dex and strength. Without hitroll, your screwed.

From: Authority Friday, September 07 2001, 12:17PM So your point of view is 'Hey lets just make everyone have no hitroll'? If anything I think snipers should keep ther hitroll and bash should be changed to actualy do something other than keep a person in the room for two rounds. Perhaps give a -hitroll when sitting and -gasp- even -ac! Authority Respect my Authority!

From: Sammael Friday, September 07 2001, 12:28PM no, I'm saying snipers hit too hard. The way the current system works you don't need damroll to do good damage, you need hitroll. And snipers ripping and decimating constantly on stuns or even not on stuns because they have 35 hit and 3 damroll while the fighter with 15 hit and 45 dam is wrong. So, snipers need to hit less hard, fighters need to do damage at all since currently they are laughable at best.

From: Ken Friday, September 07 2001, 12:53PM in "reality" snipers are known for shooting things and the fighters are in the front lines... snipers aren't the ones who get in there and hit the hardest when a war was faught, they stayed in the background and picked people off without anyone seeing them.

From: Authority Friday, September 07 2001, 01:00PM Just a note on Ken's post... Snipers as we call them in this game double as thiefs. Thief's use there perception to place well aimed attacks that dish out lots of damage.

From: Boreas Friday, September 07 2001, 01:31PM The way I see perc is below 10 you're blind and deaf and all that. Between 10 and 40 are varying degrees of near/farsightedness, and being hard of hearing and stuff. 40-60 should be pretty much a normal range of hearing, and 20/20 vision. In the high ranges of perc, you start being able to hear whispers and sounds from other rooms, see far into the distance, see in the dark, etc. So high perc would help somebody when shooting, but anything above normal wouldn't have much affect in hand to hand combat. So the perc hitroll bonus didn't make much sense. In terms of game balance, I don't agree with the change, because I don't like anything that downgrades chartypes. However, I do agree that it was weird how hitroll was affected by two stats and damroll by only one. I think a better change (if it isn't to late) would be to leave hitroll as it was with dex and perc, and add dam bonuses with some other stat when high, like say...spirit. That still wouldn't fix the problem Sammael pointed out, with hitroll just mattering a whole lot more than damroll. I'm not sure what would fix that.

From: Huginn Friday, September 07 2001, 02:47PM For Authority.. thieves traditionally did not hit as hard as warriors. If you're thinking about AD&D, I'll grant you that backstab is a powerful damage skill but that hasn't changed here. The gist of it is this: The strength of dex is avoiding damage. The strength of con is taking damage for a long time. The strength of str is dealing damage. If a sniper can deal as much damage or more in an avg melee round as a str fighter then we have a problem. Huginn

From: Darla Friday, September 07 2001, 03:28PM I agree, Huginn. But the problem wasn't so much dex doing too much damage (I agree we did too much, but not grossly so). Rather it is that str doesn't do enough. Darla, a sniper who counted on high hitroll and is now mediocre.

From: Nanna Friday, September 07 2001, 03:37PM I agree with Darla. Strength doesn't do enough damage, compared to dex, bu then that's also because you need hitroll to have damroll count for anything. Snipers may have been doing too much damage, but it still makes sense that hitroll should depend on perc, since you need to be able to see openings in your oponents defence. Maybe the formula for hitroll should just be revised so that it depends on dex and perc, but in a different way than it does now. -Nanna

From: Ganymede Friday, September 07 2001, 03:41PM I think this change is exactly the right step to take. Hitroll and damroll are way too important as it is, and hitroll was WAY too important because it was so easy to get high bonuses in it for snipers. Dex/perc characters were hitting too hard, and this fixes that. So what if it's a downgrade (a needed one) to one chartype? Do you suggest that they should make every other fight type stronger just to avoid a downgrade to one type? That would create tons of balance issues to fix, and would be a huge mess. This is a great start down the path of Legend no longer being dexmud. Ganymede et al.

From: Darla Friday, September 07 2001, 04:33PM I disagree. I don't think that as a dex/perc I was hitting too hard. I never damcap, and rip only on the rarest occasions. The things was, I decimated with fairly good consistency. But then, why shouldn't I be able to hit well, when I am a pure fighter of a type? I can't heal, and I cast no magic. I fail to see how making hitroll harder to get makes it any less important. If anything, this makes (mostly old) +hit gear more important, since snipers no longer have decent natural hitroll without it. I think that one of the reasons that dex fighters were able to hit close to how hard str fighters do, is heavy dex weapons. In any case, I don't believe that this change was the best solution.

From: Dashiva Friday, September 07 2001, 05:56PM yea, I have 20 hitroll what can I say?

From: Sandman Friday, September 07 2001, 06:02PM They also changed the natural of a 100 stat giving you 25 to either hit or dam? I have 100 dex and am wearing hitroll gear and still only have 25 hitroll.. not that im complaining I just wanted to know if they also messed with the natural setup as well. Previously stated to my knowledge was 100 stat = 25 natural of hit or dam.... Sandman one that likes the change, but feels bad still for str

From: Kayin Friday, September 07 2001, 09:20PM Lets see if i have this right.... There is an imbalance, so instead of implimenting new skills or beefing up other char 'types' we down- grade the one in question, making it less desireable to run and making higher lvl chars a lot more worthless -especially since they've already done all the quests for stats based on how they used perc for hitroll, and cant change anything this late in their char's lives... Just kinda glad i perma'd my sniper before this happened, so im not as ticked off as i COULD be -pshrug- - Kayin, low enough level to managed to adapt to the change....

From: Craven Friday, September 07 2001, 10:05PM we're talking like 6 frickin hitroll, you people are freaking out over nothing, full agg a sniper is still going to have 32 hitroll which is MORE then sufficiant to do incredible damage, probably more on average then any of my fighters on a non stunned target. If 32 is that much worse then 38, then maybe THATS the problem.

From: Huginn Friday, September 07 2001, 10:14PM Im my opinion, its true that str isn't hitting as hard as they should, although it'd be interesting to see if that's true for str vs con as well as str vs dex. If it turns out to only be the later, then maybe the answer would be to change the chance of parrying/dodging while resting. Huginn

From: Craven Friday, September 07 2001, 10:22PM as it stands bash is almost worthless, its only use being to keep someone in the room. I think without a doubt the chance to dodge/parry needs to be DRAMATICLY reduced while sitting. There's a reason people headbutt when they have 100 str/con, and thats because one stun round is worth so much more then 2 sitting rounds.

From: Muad'Dib Friday, September 07 2001, 10:29PM I somehow fail to see why people -have- to rant if it's a downgrade imms make porters porters, we have rants imms make thieves thieves instead of hitters, we have rants but then again, we should all be able to solo -every- mob on the mud outtanking them, anything should be considered an insult to -every- player's intelligence, as they surely know better There exists no separation between gods and men one blends softly casual into the other. -- Paul Muad'Dib, Usul of Tabr

From: Rufus Saturday, September 08 2001, 12:20AM I'm not sure about dodge, but I'm pretty sure parry has serious disadvantages (if it works at all) while sitting. It used to, at least =) -Ruf

From: Aquilante Saturday, September 08 2001, 01:00PM I think is a little more than 6 hitroll lost. I think i was used to have 31 and now i have 21. I agree though that the change may balance a bit...only one thing though. Now i will fight fighters full of old eq and with better hitroll that i have now. If you want to balance is time that the imms take the right step and take off all the old eq.

From: Stain Monday, September 10 2001, 05:41AM I like the way Huginn described it in append number 7. That being said I still think perc should figure into tumble. Hitroll SHOULD be necessary to land hit hard. It's not that str dosn't hit any harder it's that the massive crippling blows don't land as often. You SHOULDN'T damcap if you can't hit your target. I look at it like a bodybuilder fighting bruce lee. He's big as hell, can't wipe his own ass, but if he hits you it's really gonna hurt. Meanwhile lee ducks and dodges while bustin' repeated precision kicks to the dome which is gonna bust up the big dude pretty good. I have 29/7 hit/dam and havn't ripped to shreds, stunned or otherwise in a very long time. I do decimate regularly, when I hit 7 to 9 or so times a round, 3 times and it's a peirce hard or so. I've taken caps from reload composite 3.quiver swings of an sss before. Str DOES make you hit r really hard, but like the bodybuilder, if your slow (low dex) your opponant will have moved by the time your shot gets where it's going. This char dominated in the low to high mid levels, like most snipers do (mostly cuz of backstab). Even with just a pair of Cian's gloves for +hitroll though, Paranoia repeatedly pounded the crap outa backstabers. he had 100 dex and 80 str, and decimated like clockwork at 30-34, standing v standing. Ripped a lot on bashed/stunned rounds too. If I hadn't let him poof and added the expert weapons prof at 35 he prolly woulda hit real hard. I don't see the problem, looking to me like people want to have their cake and eat it too. Want to hit real hard regularly without having to catch up to your target first. Siirous hits like a mack truck, Varnel's bashes are anything but 'almost worthless'. Leatherface was my last char, he had real trouble hitting on bashed/standing rounds, but tore it up when my target was stunned. That's reasonable way I see it considering his dexterity (quickness of movements) was really low so he couldn't move fast enough to hit a guy that isn't just going to stand there and let me whack on him. bleh.. i'm not too good at splainin', think I said mostly what i was thinkin', though. oh, that thing about perc and tumble at the top, I meant if hitroll no longer makes us snipers land our shots regularly (like it does now, with whatever bonus perc gives) there should be some other bennifit to being a specialized char type. Tumbling/hitting more often than chars with FAR lower awareness/aim seems logical to me.