On Leadership

Posted by LadyAce on 07/14

From: Cheyla Wednesday, July 11 2001, 08:30PM I was sitting at work this evening thinking about morts I'd seen recently taking definite leadership roles... Some may be immortal morts, but on the whole I certainly am not seeing a lack of mort leaders... Some are GMs, some are assistant GMs, and some aren't. Who? Just a few names off the top of my head... Emrysia, MoiraGwyn, Marcel, Mertjai, McDougan, Grunt, Aaaaarrgh, Malia, Judah, Dechitre, Quimby, and many others. Got them and plenty more out there that I haven't named.

From: Nepon Wednesday, July 11 2001, 08:38PM who needs leadership anyway? i personally dont need anyone to lead me in the directions that i want to go my characters that have strong rps have them because i made them the ones that pk do so because i want them to not because some imm came along and held my hand and said, "here you go little sheep....head this way!" so those of you looking for leadership why not try following the path that YOU create? my 2 cents -nepon

From: Fuego Wednesday, July 11 2001, 09:24PM how poetic ladyace -gag- Listen, im not going to deny that there are "leaders" on this mud however, I and I'm sure many others dont believe their "leadership" is in the right path... whatever, i'm gonna head off because I'm too lazy to get into this right now

From: Chaykin Wednesday, July 11 2001, 09:48PM No one is denying that there are leaders among us. They do deserve support and do a great job with what they do. But the sort of leadership I was talking about isn't as simple as being the GM of a clan or being an active commentator on boards. I'm talking about people who galvanize us, people who infuse energy into the mud. I'm talking about people who cause us all to know who we are and where we stand RP-wise, by virtue of whether we like them or not; whether we agree or disagree with them. Don't look at this as a criticism of anybody. We are all here having fun and doing well at what we do. I just believe that compared to what I've seen come before, something is missing. In the past, that something was provided largely by Legend's creators. Does it have to be provided by immortals today? I don't think so. We can all do our best to try to make things interesting again, but as in all things, a better understanding of the issues of today can often be gained by understanding the ones of yesterday. Chay

From: Boreas Wednesday, July 11 2001, 09:58PM I don't agree with Cheyla's list of people who are leaders, because half of them only seem to be leading eachother. And that is part of the problem. Not that they do this--I don't really care what they do. The problem is the contempt people like me have for the so-called leaders of today. Nobody has any charisma anymore.

From: Cheyla Wednesday, July 11 2001, 10:16PM Well, considering the shift in the general age of our playerbase and the internet as a whole, you're not GOING to see the same proliferation of leaders or the same variety. We've gone from having a playerbase mainly in the college and post-college age scale to being largely made up of pre-college, which has gotten increasingly larger as more families get connected. It is the rare high school student that steps up to a leadership role, whereas in college, you're being forced into it a bit more as you learn to make your own. And people tend to be much more comfortable with themselves and know themselves better after high school. If you want more leaders, for those of you in college, recruit some of your college buddies and get them playing. Seek out those few younger people you see leadership abilities in and support them, encourage them to step up to the challenge. And be more of a leader yourself instead of just posting about it. It isn't something that will happen overnight or even over a few months, it will get discouraging, but if you are dedicated and patient, you very well may be rewarded for your efforts. And if you aren't you can at least say you tried.

From: Kae Thursday, July 12 2001, 05:16AM First -- I agree completely with Nepon here. People don't want to be lead by hand, and I certainly don't want to lead them. Help them? Sure. Order them around, or try to convince them that my way is THE way? Nuh uh. Second -- I could probably add at least another 10 names to Cheyla's list, and it'd still be far from complete. Moreover, those who inspire and encourage aren't always the vocally loud people. Many inspire through their actions, though we may never encounter them on boards or channels. And that is just as it should be. So, do these 'leaders' lead each other around? Sure they do. Who else would they be leading? Like everyone else, they play with the people they know and like. They're not boy scout leaders. They're not obliged to get to know everybody, nor to establish themselves as a sort of guides to a better community. They're just playing, like everyone else. The way I see it you either have to get to know someone whom you consider to be a 'leader', or become your own source of inspiration. If you can't get anyone to notice you, it's not necessarily THEIR fault. Maybe your RP or personality don't match. Maybe your interests differ. You could be in an odd time zone. Etc. If what you want in terms of community does not exist, get together with a group of friends, and make it yourself. --Darth Kae "Resistance is futile; you will be lectured at."

From: Fook Thursday, July 12 2001, 11:14AM To paraphrase Kae You cannot be lead those who do not want to be led. Especially when playing Legend is 100% voluntary (except for you addicts)

From: Chaykin Thursday, July 12 2001, 01:39PM We are obviously going to have to agree to disagree here, because what some of you see as "leadership" is a little more simplistic than what I define it as. I'm not talking about shepherds leading sheep. I'm not talking about allowing ourselves to be led around by the nose in whatever direction someone else's fancy takes us. I'm talking about characters with energy and with polarizing personalities, who are leaders for less tangible reasons than just being GM of a clan. Sure, all the people on Cheyla's list are nice people and are some kind of leaders within their own circles. But I gave my own list in an append to an earlier post. Did you know any of those characters? The difference was that many of them had -mud-wide- influence...and not only did they have this, but many times they had it in opposing directions to other leaders. In other words, you didn't have just everybody who likes to RP joining one or two clans. A lot were on opposing sides, and through that, some very interesting conflicts would arise. And yes, many of them were immortals' morts, taking an active interest in the RP shape of their own mud. Yes, I and other people who want to see more of this can "do it ourselves," which is a stock immortal answer I've grown accustomed to in recent years, but that's easier said than done. Those who have taken offense at this topic, shouldn't. I've never said there were no interesting people on the mud or that the immortals are doing a lousy job. All it is is something that's changed, and something that is useful to be aware of so that it can be worked around. Chay

From: Chocorua Thursday, July 12 2001, 02:12PM okay so let me get thi straight .. we (immortals) are supposed to: build the mud maintain the mud improve the mud play the mud protect teh mud AND be responsible for LEADING the mud in every way? honestly why would we even open the mud up to everyone to play if we were supposed to play every role there is in this community. Days gone by teh immortals were the largest active players in the playerbase. That is not the case anymore. The community as a whole is the responsibility of all who play there. It may seem a "stock" answer from teh imm staff to "do it yourself" but that is simply because we don't number enough people to dominate the community anymore, nor should we. And we don't want to dominate teh community. Chocorua

From: Chaykin Thursday, July 12 2001, 02:28PM Whoa, Choc. Hold on a sec. Nobody said anything about dominating. And as I had hoped I'd made clear already, nobody expects a return to old times. As you yourself said, 'Days gone by the immortals were the largest active players in the playerbase. This is not the case anymore.' Well, that was pretty much my point. That and that those immortal players, in my view, were more dynamic and bold than most people are today. There is no need to get defensive. It was only an observation. Chay

From: Elisa Thursday, July 12 2001, 02:52PM Perhaps the problem here is that there are no sheep...

From: LadyAce Thursday, July 12 2001, 06:56PM I did see your list, Chaykin, and I did play when those people were around...but I can't say that I ever saw them as leaders. When I was a mort, the leaders I remember most distinctly were Terrorspawn, Lori, Lagmonster, Somar...in other words, people who were a little bit closer to my own particular 'generation' as opposed to being here a bit before me, people who I knew and spoke with ... they are the ones who infused life into my experiences here. And I'm not sure it's because they were exactly leaders. I think it's because I liked them, I looked up to them, I enjoyed the experience and can point to them. I've forgotten people, I know it. Alistaire, Fatale, Mayo, Stradivari, Balinor, Huma... so I guess it may come down to semantics. The only solution to an argument when it descends into semantics is to define terms and begin again. So....:)

From: Rusalka Thursday, July 12 2001, 07:03PM Personally, I tihnk there is a common tendency to romanticize the "old days." I am certainly guilty of it also. In some ways, the mud will probably never seem as vivid, or the charisma so sparkling as it was in my first year or two when I slept way too little. It seems to me that the mud tends to cycle as well. I actually have seen quite a lot of leadership in the last year or two that I've started playing again. Some of it is obvious. Some of it less so. And while I don' .. don't want to sound mean, I agree that at some level, you as players (which includes my morts too, for that matter), need to make the "leadership" that we want. The mud's a much bigger place than it used to be in those early yesteryears. It may not always be as easy to see all different subcommunities and their leaders that we have. But I've seen them. - rus

From: Akai_Hayate Thursday, July 12 2001, 10:45PM Not to rag on you guys, but how isn't it the imms job to be a leader? isn't that the entire point of your job? aside from the builders, who have just been imm'd to get them out of the general population...-flee- Just kidding, i love you builders :P i'd never get a string if it werent for you guys heh -halo- But on another topic...wasn't cheyla listing non-imm mort leaders? I saw at least three imm's in that list... Anyways thou, with my luck you guys were talking specifically about sl lea leaders :P bleh.

From: Ming Friday, July 13 2001, 10:16AM its the imm's job (as builders and maintainers of the mud) to give us the tools to lead/play/evolve here. me, personally, i think the immort staff here is way way way too cliquish and close minded when it comes to turning over the reigns to morts. why can't any player build an area? why can't a player do his own strings? why is the exp curve so obnoxious to make leveling here litteraly a commitment to boredom, slaying wildebeests over and f'ing over and over? i don't understand. why does it take so long to get stuff balanced? why can't the source code for some skills be made public - afraid the imm's pk morts will start getting owned? don't give me this crap about the mystery of the game, if i choose to read the files that's my choice. and why can't you repeat quests for items, not exp? so big f'ing deal if i get 2 ape earrings - who cares? all these things add up, to me, to this place having the feel it does today. this is just my two cents, and so i log in, see if anyone is online to pk with, kill or be killed or log off. pk is the only thing keeping me here, and i think a lot of others too, i don't know, i can only speak for myself Ming's player

From: Ming Friday, July 13 2001, 10:30AM oh yeah, nominate cheyla for the most helpful immort! she is teh fastest restringer on the mud haha!

From: LadyAce Saturday, July 14 2001, 12:50PM This is a response to Akai_Hayate... I think that the case we're trying to make is that imm leadership is a different role than mort leadership. Imms take care of the leadership in a lot of directions -- what new areas are going in, how the code is shaped, where the mud is heading in general. But we can't do these things and also lead all the RP, all the runs, all the social interactions etc.... we can't be everything, essentially. But just as we try to inject what we can into the 'mortal-led' stuff, mortals also try to inject what they can into the 'imm-led' stuff. I don't think we're trying to duck any responsibility here, just give a perspective on how our responsibility is balanced with yours. This is partially a response to Ming, and partially an extension of the above ... Imms are responsible for the overall feel and direction of the mud, we do what we can to present a coherent and interesting environment. There's a level where requiring imm approval of descs and strings is a move for control ... but listen closely to the context of that control. We are trying to keep this place coherent, with a consistent feel and a positivie experience for people. We want to keep typos and obscene stuff out of strings, we want to keep some standard for descs so that they stick with the mud's theme, etc. The good of the game is our idea of "control" - I don't think that makes us control freaks, we're not gripping these powers because we are all tyrannical. We're reserving these powers to ourselves for the good of the game. I can absolutely understand how, if you interpret us in the worst possible light, you might take our actions the way you do, but I urge you to consider other perspectives. The conclusions you reach about our reasoning for separating imm and mort powers are not correct. -LA