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Posted by Won on 07/11

From: Yui Sunday, July 08 2001, 12:00AM I usually feel like I reading the editorials in newspapers. The section for the people who can't think. Yui's player.

From: Israfel Sunday, July 08 2001, 04:06AM I would and do strongly object to a character wipe. Though doubtless it'd be better for me in a RL sense because it would cure me of this addiction to Legend. Legend. Not mudding. I've yet to find another mud that has held me for more than Legend has. The rest are simply (to me) cheaper versions of computer FRP games. I am not by any means my best character, in fact, I'd rate myself as one of my worst ones. I have sainglend type characters that I'd object a lot LESS to losing than the few I keep simply from (strange as it may be) sentimental value, even if I don't play them all that much (if at all) any more. My objection to charwipe is not about equipment or strings, really. That really isn't all that hard to come by. My objection stems from charwipe resulting in the loss of purely useless (in any gaming sense) things that you only accumulate by playing any character for an extended amount of time. Gifts, notes, silly useless things like small black mugs and corked vials. That sort of thing. It's arguable that I could just remake the same character after a charwipe and nothing much would have changed. I can't speak for anyone else, but in my own case, I've found that this just isn't so. I find that after remaking a character I was very fond of (perma and restart) who was NOT a pkiller, I simply lost the ?heart? to RP them well any longer. I still do play him on occasion. (The character in question is Gwalchmai, if anyone remembers him), but the _feel_ of it isn't there for me any longer. If this place seems static, why not take a vacation in some other mud for a while? I've been doing that recently and I must say, in a stock Diku... ---====------------ANNIHILATING-------------===--- my opponent does have a certain charm. =) Israfel

From: Fynn Sunday, July 08 2001, 06:07AM Sentimental value is great, and I dare claim I understand it fully, having bothered to retire almost each and every pker i've ever created despite the effort or bother involved in them. It may also be true that there is really no need of a charwipe, but with each change, chars depreciate both in the players viewpoint and in the in-game sense -- I do not know of many who still play their old chars with the same zeal the first 100 or 200 hrs after their creation. I have also perma'd a couple chars, and can tell you that it isn't the same even if you keep all your old descs, mimick the setup, mimick the strings, etc. It doesn't feel the same to me and I don't treat others the same way just because they've got a character with the same name. But what does all this sentimental value mean? Yes it keeps people attached to this place and have a certain fondness that you can't reproduce, but it also means the game shifts OOC ever so gradually. After a while certain characters that remain are associated with an exact avatar of the player behind them, and not much remains IC. I myself have sometimes spent some effort (hah!) trying to remain anonymou and that only happens when I don't alt at all. Keeps both me and others in check of cross or multiplay. Also it keeps the mud from being a place where certain people hoard. Why do you hoard? Clan spots, coupons, housing, xp, expie nominations, and everything you can imagine, there are a group of people out there that cling on to them and leave little space for others to join. At any rate, I'm not forcing my view on anyone as I don't have the power nor intention to. I merely want people to think exactly what they are clinging onto and why. Are you afraid that the hours you have spent during college leave no record? I once kept all those chars to assure myself that the thousands of hours I have spent mudding left something tangible. Something that i could boast or at least look back on with some sense of security. A charwipe would probably hurt me a lot in that way, as some chars had names of infamy or notoriety that prove the hours i have spent made some impact on others. I am in no position to decide where this mud should go. Text-based mudding is a dying breed, and most people are probably here to enjoy something other than state-of-the-art coding wonders and gimmicks. If that is the case, we don't need any coders, builders, etc. We probably don't need skill trees, game balance, or anything. All we need are chars from the past and players from the past that can cuddle around and reminisce. Every now and then things will get ugly, or rather, old wounds will crack and OOC word-spewing will consume our online time. That mindset is in no way wrong. I am simply stating that I'd rather see this place shift more IC than OOC, constantly change so that i can boast this place is more intricate and lively than the graphic muds that charge you a monthly fee.

From: Love Sunday, July 08 2001, 10:21AM Umm. Well I dunno. About that bit where "the game shifts OOC ever so gradually". For me the game has always _been_ OOC. This is the _game_ that's OOC though! The neat stuff like ooh if I blind this then it can't see me so I can hit it for free if I dun have prio! And stuff. That's gamey stuff. Whereas I disagree wif the 'certain characters that remain are associated with an exact avatar of the player behind them, and not much remains IC' thingie. 'Cause really, that seems like a bit of a tunnel vision er statement. While there is always the basic playerperson behind the personas, I really canna say that the personas always fade into OOC manifestations of what the person is like in RL. (Eek, I'm er being formal how frightening!) Me grant that there are people who are _always_ the same (well always act the same) no matter what character they're playing and stuff. But you also should kinda try to allow for people who arena like that. 'Cause thinking that just 'cause one particular character talks/acts one way means that that's the er avatar of the player or whatever that was! Is just setting yourself up for this thingie I like to call "character shock". That's just me tho! And I havena pk'd in ages and I perma when I get bored wif chartypes so what do I know! Love! All you need is me! Even if I'm never here!

From: Chaykin Sunday, July 08 2001, 10:40PM I think there are several things that have contributed to the social rut the mud is currently in: There are no other goals in the game besides levelling and hitting 50. Levelling to 50 is too easy, and a lot of the quests here aren't immersive or fun enough to substitute for xping. When it doesn't take a lot of time and/or work to level up, and when there's not much to do after hitting level 50, characters just won't be as valuable to a player and we have higher character turnover. Legend lacks leadership. Back in the day, a lot of immorts played mort characters often, and those characters had a big influence on the social scene, in both pk and rp. They pushed things along in bold directions. We no longer have anything like that. Sure, morts could take this role themselves, but when they don't perceive that immorts care, they will have a hard time doing it either. And really, who could be as attached to a game as its creators? RP on this mud has gotten pretty stale. For awhile, we had lots of refreshing and interesting plots and such, but for the past year or two it's been the same ideas rehashed over and over and over again. What's more, RP has gotten more faddish in recent years, with several players copying one who invents a successful RP for themselves. Because of PKOK, we can now enable more than one character. The pk community suffers for this, because players' time is spread out among their pkillers, they spend less time on one major one that everyone knows. A few of these things are really tough to fix, but a few aren't that difficult. This is only my opinion of course :) Chay

From: Sandra Monday, July 09 2001, 12:34AM Chaykin wrote: Legend lacks leadership. Back in the day, a lot of immorts played mort characters often, and those characters had a big influence on the social scene, in both pk and rp. They pushed things along in bold directions. We no longer have anything like that. Sure, morts could take this role themselves, but when they don't perceive that immorts care, they will have a hard time doing it either. And really, who could be as attached to a game as its creators? ----- Personally, I'm offended by this paragraph. As an immort that tries to play daily, to make some sort of noise somewhere, as I've done for quite a few years now - as have SEVERAL other immorts - I think that you are completely wrong. Perhaps the thing is that you don't know our morts these days(ok, people do know some of mine). Or perhaps you're not on at the same times that we are. OR! perhaps players have become a bit cliquish, and simply don't notice these things any longer. Granted, for the past 6 weeks, I've been fairly scarse since I've had to move across the country, get partly settled in, find work, move yet again(which we've just finished doing today), but even still, I've attempted to be on every day, if even for a few minutes. And, in the time that I have been on, I've seen imm morts on the entire time. So, I really don't want to hear that we don't play chars often, nor do I want to hear that they don't influence, or at least impact the social scene. They do. You just don't know who they are. On to the original post: I, personally, dislike the idea of a playerwipe. I've always hated the thought of it, and I probably always will. I have 37 characters, last I counted. Each and every one of them I put hours into. Each and every one of them has their own personalities, their own rps, and their own goals. It's unfair to those of us that DO continue to charish our alts, to work on our alts, and to rp on our alts, to toss up the thought that a pwipe is a 'Good Thing'. It's not. If you're so bored with your characters, get rid of them all. Make a new one. Tell no one who you are. Work from scratch, just as you did when you first started. Try something -different- instead of repeating the same thing over and over. What really cracks me up though is this: There's this post here, saying how we have to basically downgrade EVERYONE. Then there's a newsboard post about that pathetic mud wimping article that makes me laugh every time I read it. What people need to do is get out of their repetitious behaviour if it becomes boring for them. Yes, the immorts are here to add new things, and we are doing so as best we can. But, you can't expect us to make you have fun. We put the means out there for you, YOU have to choose to use it or not. That's not something we can do for you no matter how hard we try. NOTE: the opinions contained within this append are Sandra's, and only Sandra's. Please do not take them as anything other than her personal thoughts. -Sandra

From: Chaykin Monday, July 09 2001, 12:13PM My intent isn't to offend anyone, Sandra. What I should have said is that a few people take on this leadership role in the community, but not nearly as many as in older times so far as I can tell. There was a time when we had Deathstalker, Mercenary, No, Edity, Dusty, and other chars who were omnipresent and had a huge impact on people, and begging your pardon, I just don't see anything the equivalent in modern days. By this, I am not saying morts shouldn't try to fill this role, but logically that role should belong to imms above anyone else. I do know a few immorts play the game a lot, and that's great. It's also possible that the reasons you stated are responsible for them not appearing to have the same impact as those older ones. Also keep in mind that I'm not trying to diminish the work immorts do as immorts. But if you read my append carefully, I mentioned things that both morts and immorts are doing that contribute to the so-called rot people are complaining about. If we want the mud to grow and improve, I don't think anyone should be exempt from holding a good-natured mirror to themselves once in awhile, and that includes me, you and -everyone- else. Chay

From: Cheyla Monday, July 09 2001, 01:35PM I'm somewhat confused as to why immorts as their mortals should be the ones to logically fill the leadership roles of the game over all other mortals... I am an immortal but my morts have never been big on the leadership aspect. I'm not a good leader and I don't think I should be expected to be when there are plenty of good leaders among the mortals. I've held GM positions in clans - did a poor job at it despite my best efforts, and stepped down to people that could do a better job. Heck, I haven't even been morting much lately... the few times I've spent the day playing my morts instead of building or being available to the players, I've felt guilty because inevitably, someone comes out and says I don't do enough. -shrug- Just my brief thoughts at the moment while still trying to brush off the stinging insults implying imms (which includes me) don't care. Cheyla

From: Mathius Monday, July 09 2001, 03:03PM i agree with chaykin, sorry sandra :P Im sure the immortals play their morts just plenty, but there is no equal attention between the RP and PK they bring, granted I'm sure they RP quite well, but the PKing is severely lacking... how can PK survive if not even the immortals support it? and as far as the RP issue goes, i've made seen something quite interesting, what is with the common RP of "Someone is going to die unless the rest of the mud can pool together to save her" i've viewed this EXACT role play quite a few times and i find i it to be quite boring, what ever happened to getting MAAAAAAD at someone? Why must everyone be friends? -snore-

From: Naomi Monday, July 09 2001, 04:06PM I seem to have put my comments on this thread in another thread, so please read 31 1 :)

From: Israfel Wednesday, July 11 2001, 06:39AM I was going to elaborate on these points after putting them down, but I somehow find myself too tired to. So here in no particular order: People expect too much from RP/PK and the imms. Should try to take it for granted that _everyone_ they meet is RPing and see what comes of it. Might perhaps want to see that not everyone sees RPing as something they only do with friends. In fact there might be some people who RP more or less exclusively with strangers and/or aquaintances. Immorts should be respected for their duties and responsibilities _as immorts_. Their morts should have to earn respect _as morts_ just like any other normal morts. Internal vs external rpers and the spectrum between. Basic expectations of immorts morts that differ from normal morts: No cheating, no harrassment. The Good Old Days. Is it the mud that's changed, or yourself? Or perhaps most likely, both? RP shouldn't need to make Events happen to matter. Simply being the persona should not be any better or worse than making RP events happen. Immorts morts and leadership qualities. Try to consider the possibility that immorts would sometimes like _not_ to lead or be high profile as their morts in order to have a little peace, some space to breathe. Saying that immorts need to actively lead the community as their morts subtly implies that players aren't capable of doing this themselves and need to be spoonfed. ----------- Israfel

From: Chaykin Wednesday, July 11 2001, 02:16PM Israfel, your points are rather scattershot and some of them are sentence fragments that don't appear to make any sense, but I'll make a go of it: People's expectations of RP/PK and the immorts are based on past experience. I can say without a doubt that in the past, both RP and PK have been more exciting and deep than they are currently. So if wanting things to be consistent is expecting too much, I'm guilty as charged. As for the immorts: immortals' mort participation used to be much greater than it is currently, at least as far as I can tell. You'll want to go back and note that I haven't said this is better or worse, only that I think it has created a sort of mortal leadership vacuum. And it has. I also have never said morts should not attempt to try to fill this vacuum themselves, or that they are incapable of doing so. I just think most of them lack the motivation, because they are here to play a game, not be a figurehead. They don't necessarily have the same interest in Legend's well-being as an immortal presumably might. Having tried to get people excited and motivated through various methods myself, I can say for certain that it's no easy task. Is it the mud who's changed, or the people? That's a loaded question. The answer to both is obviously yes, but since players are constantly coming and going, the change in people is less trackable and less applicable to this discussion. The mud has changed and nobody expects the old days to return, because that will never happen. The question here is, what can be done to make things fresh and exciting here under the current circumstances, and who takes it upon themselves to do it? Let's be clear that the job immorts do as immorts is a seperate issue. I think most of them do a great job and should be commended for it more often. But they are understaffed, and their workload seems to be such that it's all they have time for. If they have no wish to try to take the initiative as morts to steer events in new directions, that's their prerogative and I wouldn't criticize them for it. I recognize the desire sometimes for peace and quiet. All I'm saying is: if all but two or three people have this attitude, and morts don't really know how to be leaders, who is left to fill that role? Chay

From: Chaykin Wednesday, July 11 2001, 02:50PM Oh, and on the subject of RP...we both know that a lot of people RP, that they have different styles for doing so, and that some are loud about it while most are not. Naturally there's nothing wrong with that. Most of my own RP is internal, and when it is not, I do my best to include anyone who shows interest. But when several of Legend's salient roleplayers are cliquey and exclusive, it doesn't do much to promote fresh and interesting RP. Chay