Posted by Poetry on 04/04
I have been playing an alt, not too pk active, but Ive been around.
I just want to share a couple of recent thoughts...
3 thoughts actually, if I remember them all.
First of all, I have to say that ever since socials can be done on
channels, I have had most of them off. The reason is that you get
people that dont have anything creative to say, using socials to
communicate.. for example, I noticed that a certain character will
search out a girl character in the who list, and then since he cant
think of anything to say, use the flirt social on chat.
Before socials, someone like that would actually have to think of somethin
to say. Now, communication on chat has become so generic. People
at a loss for words use the same socials over and over to state really
nothing... I remember when cute kids tried to chat a little, and their
personalities came out in the words they chose. Now they dont have
to think, and its just social social social. Im an artist in RL and I
firmly believe that anything you express should be you... not a generic
shortcut thats used at a loss for words. Now I know that people like
refering to their strings and stuff, but thats not the thing that saddens
me. Im not suggesting that I want this removed, but merely sharing
my sadness at the fact that communication on chat has become very
generic and uninteresting:(.
Ok, second thing. Can an imm explain why its so hard to code it so that
you can "clan" like in the old pksystem if you like, and you cant turn it
off... and if you dont like that option, you can use pkok. Doesnt that
make everyone happy? I cant think of one problem with this. You get a
smaller community of old school pkers, and a larger more relaxed community
of casual pkers... I agree with everything that Mars said and it seems
so easy to fix, that I wonder why imms have just pushed it away. How
long has pkok been in? People are so loyal to this place.. we have been
crying about it for years it seems. Dont you guys care? If there is any
value to this post, Ill append and suggest how this could actually be done
but it really seems that no imm wants to deal with this. I gotta say, its
really sad that so many people are upset about this, and nothing is being
done. The existance of MUSHes and MOOs or whatever pretty much prove
that legend will always be able to survive, but eventually, all the people
that have been hanging in there will be logging on less and less.
Anyway...
The last thing is that I have always been among the better pkillers here,
and I would like to say that I have absolutely no chance to win against
a CON fighter type with old damage eq. The combination of the new
big hps, and the old damage is devastating. Im not whining.. I had my
hayday where I was pkill lots and doing well and winning... but just so
you know, this old experienced pkiller has no chance against someone with
750hps, 50 mind for roots, and 25 damageroll. I crashed someone like that
into aengus for 250 points of damage, did 250 points of damage, and then
died... and I Started with 500hps and 700 mana. He didnt even eat a root!
Im not complaining, and I hate to sound arrogant (but I could be), but if
I cant even come close to killing these people, then most newer players
are going to be even less able.
One last thing (a fourth thing I guess) is that I wish people like Fraegis
would stop insult and smashing posts like the one that Mars posted. Mars
wasnt whining, and was actually making some very intelligent points about
human nature and this little microcosm of survival that we used to have in
Legend. If there was RPOK, I would reject Fraegis, and so would a lot of
people.. I wonder how he would start complaining on the boards if people
could turn off his attempts at RP...
Anyways, I hope imms can find a way to make everyone happy. Right now
thats not the case!
Poetry
From: Poetry
Thursday, March 22 2001, 08:39AM
btw... me and harkonnen post the same thing at the same time:)
about the permanent pk thing, hehe. Great minds think alike!
From: Harkonnen
Thursday, March 22 2001, 08:41AM
what poetry said heheh!
From: Yvonne
Thursday, March 22 2001, 08:56AM
Coupla things -
I agree completely about the socials over channels thing.
If it's used to complement actual chatting, or whatever,
cool enough. There are folks who use it well. But then you
get the stretches where for like five minutes, everyone's
just poking and tickling eachother or whatever. Well,
that's pretty boring. Dunno, I don't like being crotchety,
but this is one change the mud coulda done without, IMO.
I also think it'd be great to have some sort of "oldschool"
pk option. The only argument I can think of against it is
that it would create a further division between pk/nonpk.
That may be so, but I think it would clear up a lot of the
dissatisfaction I see around here. I'm a fan of pkok, all
of my chars are pkokenabled, but I think there should be
something more for those who want it.
From: Fuego
Thursday, March 22 2001, 12:29PM
Honestly, i dont know what im going to say in this append...
i know i have supposedly "quit" before, but i feel that this time
theres something different, i honestly see no reason to stay here
anymore, i have always been a PKer, and always will be. recently,
i involved fuego into some heavy role play, and of course i was accused
with the casual "stop harassing me you pker!" comment, so i give up
i honestly wish that this mud could go through some drastically needed
changes. This is by far the best coded mud i have ever seen, however i
think that some poor judgement from both the players and the immortals
has sabotaged what is a very promising future... you could say that im
whining, which im sure someone like fraegris will do, (i dont agree with h
knocking of mars post) throughout my time here i have offered many ways
to "fix" the issues that we see wrong with the current situation, but i
dont think a single one has ever been implemented.
To the players - dont give up on your idea's, continue to explore and what
not, remember, no matter how involved you get with legend, it is only
a game
To the immortals - please take into consideration that some of the mortals
know what they are talking about, we know how to fix these little
problems that would make the mud more enjoyable for everyone. come to a
compromise and we can make everyone happy, until that happens i see
legend in a continual downward spiral...
sorry for my ramblings,
-Fuego's player
From: Fuego
Thursday, March 22 2001, 12:40PM
and as far as the RPOK thing poetry mentioned as a joke, we already have
that, its called "tell immortal WHINE! this person is harassing me
because our RP's are different!"
From: Ea!
Thursday, March 22 2001, 06:12PM
To answer the question about coding an oldstyle "clan" option:
It's not hard to code. Theoretically, the pkok code can happily co-
exist with the old style code (it hasn't been extensively tested)
and we could do that without rebooting.
The reason that we aren't running the mud like that, and the reason
most of the ideas to "improve" pkok aren't implemented has nothing
to do with code difficulty. It's simple: we fear that it's going to
lead to more harassment. If there is more harassment, pk goes. Period.
No more discussion.
Part of the imm staff thinks that pkok was a success. Part thinks that
it was a failure. To my knowledge, without exception, those that think
that it was a failure believe so because there is still more pk harassment
than they'd like to see. They want pk pulled.
To summarize our stance on "old style" pkill: we do not believe that
players should be put in a situation where they can not protect themselves
from what they consider harassment -- even if they agreed to it when they
enabled.
-Ea!
From: Craven
Thursday, March 22 2001, 07:19PM
how is what some of these people do not harrassment? People abuse pkok
by accepting a single person 3 seconds after they die, killing them in
the next 4 seconds 14 times, then rejecting them in 48 ticks and never
having any chance of retribution taken out on them. Not only is it abuse
of the pkok code in my opinion, its harassment. Maybe if the admin would
actually EXIST and do something, act like the police that I feel they are,
since I don't see them do anything else, this wouldn't be such a problem.
I remember when Samdra was head admin and situations were dealt with
swiftly and justly. I haven't seen an admin in months, since this sudden
(wrong) promotion to zandy.
And, last but not least, rp people harrass people constantly. You can say
that its not the same because it "doesn't affect your character" in the sa
From: Craven
Thursday, March 22 2001, 07:21PM
screwed up, you can say its not the same since they don't affect
your character directly through eq or xp loss, but its still harrassment.
I'm sorry to tell you, but in the real world, harassment exists, and its
dealth with. They don't just cull out the type of people who are more
prone to it. They are dealt with and life goes on. Maybe the same should
be considered here. And, since I know your going to tell me its not
admins job to do as I stated, why don't you explain just what their job is
that is so important they are never here.
From: Chocorua
Thursday, March 22 2001, 08:33PM
I find the tone of Craven's post about admin a little
leaning towards the harassment side of things. Everytime
the admin staff does something we should mind our own
business. If we try and allow people to settle their own
differences within reason... we are accused of doing nothing.
My suggestion, read the rules, obey them, if an immortal
asks something of you.. do it. If you disagree follow the
channels of responsibility from department member to head to
imp if necessary.
On the pkok topic... I am in the camp of disliking the
atmosphere that pk brings to the community. No matter what
the rules and code that is in place there will always be
people who find loop holes and cause problems. Quite
often they are able to do this without "breaking" any rules.
If we enforce the spirit of teh rule and not the letter
of the rule we get yelled at.
Chocorua - who is not here ever so couldn't possibly
have actually written this.
From: Milamber
Thursday, March 22 2001, 09:14PM
I dont have 750 hp or 25 damroll, both is less.
yep, i was crashed into Aengus, but i ate some roots. And if i
remember it right i got lucky with my headbutts, but i'm not sure.
But this is not important.
Yeah, new hp formula + old dam eq --> it is kinda owerpowered.
But still it is possible to beat these chars.
Some kind of chars are better against another kind of chars etc.
Maybe you choosed bad kind.
And i agree with something like AA permanent.
-Almost "Sultan" Milamber
From: Mars
Thursday, March 22 2001, 09:18PM
Harassment is what is wrong with
a lot more than the mud. What a soft bunch of people.
Ignore the people who whine. Let us play, dammit.
Why is the perception of being harrassed the equal
of actual harassment. Why do we put up with people
who can't act like adults (besides the fact that
1/2 the people here are teeny-bopper schmucks
who have a hard time controlling themselves when
they see a Britney Spears video much less when they
get killed in pk. I killed someone yesterday and was
completely slammed with "you m--- f--, son of a ----,
Not that I care or ever have what other people think,
but really that is why we aren't allowed the priveledge
of having pk. It is embarrassing that I AM NOT ALLOWED
to play the game the way I and many of us -high 5 append
supporters- love to play it. This isn't an online community
, this is online friggin day-care. The imms are not our
parents...they shouldn't have to resolve 'harassment'
issues....but they do because for every 1 real case of
harassment there are upteen people whining when they lose
at a damn game. You all can say whatever you like about my
attitude, but I have never whined to an imm that someone cheated
me or harassed me . It is beyond my realm that someone feels entitled
to respect here for whatever reason. You earn that. And I know
there are a lot of people in charge that disagree with that
. I think it is weak that the only reason pk isn't in the game
as we know it is because we can't be trusted with ourselves and
our emotions. This really pisses me off b/c I can read the
posts and tell the frustration level on both sides (imms and
people who want to be left alone to play the game and can
handle the responsibility). You are right, Ea, I guess we
can't handle an environment of freedom. Bleah, it reminds me
of work too much. Well, sorry but if you get looted/die/multi'd
you should realize it doesn't mean squat. I do. IT IS JUST A GAME.
And I get pissed when I lose at this game just like any other
but it doesn't mean your opponent deserves your hatred, just
means that they deserve to get the beat down from you and 4 of
your close friends.
From: Zeppelin
Friday, March 23 2001, 11:01AM
-high5 Mars-
From: Gaidal
Wednesday, April 04 2001, 01:52PM
I am going to have to side with Mars on this one. Like he said
IT IS JUST A GAME. I've been wolfpacked, had my gear stolen, even
had people try to perma me and I never for a minute considered
running to the imms and crying harassment. If they catch you
oh well you should have run faster. If they don't then you get
the pleasure of beating them down with a few friends backing
you up. I think it's far more fun to have real enemies in
character that could strike at any time. The only thing you
have to remember is that they aren't your enemies OOC. If
Mars decided to kill me 5 times and steal my strings I would
do everything in my power to get them back and get my
revenge while I was in the game as this character but I
wouldnt be lying awake in bed at night cursing his name. Nor
would I hesitate to run SL with him as one of my alts. I
think if everyone could just grasp the IC, OOC concept it would
bring us a whole lot closer to solving the current PK problems.
I do have to admit if there was a accept all permanent command
like someone mentioned earlier I would join it in a second. Maybe
I have the wrong impression of what harassment really is. If a
pkiller decides to jump me without putting on an entire tinyplot
to justify it is that harassment? What if they jump me and
steal a piece of my gear? Or if the multi me once? To me
thats not harassment, that just means there is a mean SOB out
there that I am going to have to watch out for. If they kill me
and junk my corpse every single time I log into the game
and we have never spoken before then I might consider it.
Anyway I think i've talked about as long as I can without making
a valid point. I look foreward to seeing just how neatly the
RP'ers can pick apart everything I just said and turn it around.
Yes I am accept all and there is a little - by my name.
Please take advantage of that and attack me :)
I look forward to backstabbing you all,
Gaidal Cain
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