Posted by Ganymede on 01/22
As we all know, the +hp/+mana/+mv eq was changed, to prevent people
without high con from having massive amounts of hp, and old gear is
being removed from pfiles. I believe this is fair ONLY because it is
being accompanied by a scaling up in natural hp depending on con, or
so it seems. Depending on how big the scale is I really think this will
help con a lot.
I've been one of the most ardent defenders of keeping old hit/dam eq
in pfiles, and I admit freely that my interests are selfish, having
an old SSS and old horns. However, I would be okay with the removal
of old hit/dam gear from pfiles -=IF=- it is accompanied by a scaling
up in dam for str, and in hit for dex, similar to what is being done
with hp.
I have a str fighter who has 100 str, and 27 damroll, wearing no +dam
gear old or new. That's pretty pathetic. This char is lucky if he ever
gets a rip even on small mobs. I am of the belief that if you have 100
str you should get rips fairly often and damcaps about as often as you
get rips today. Some may say that's unreasonable, but why? The damcap
exists because it is the maximum amount of damage the imms believe is
acceptable for any fighter to do in one round. Someone with 100 str
SHOULD do that much damage and do it a lot more often than they do now.
Incidentally, this char of mine hits with all 5 attacks fairly regularly
and still doesn't get many rips.
It is very widely agreed that str fighters simply aren't living up to
their promised advantages as a fighting type right now, i.e. lots of
damage. With a scaling up in damroll accompanied by a removal of the
last of the old bonus gear, bonuses would finally be what they should -
stat-based, not eq-based, all across the board.
Ganymede etc.
From: Ming
Wednesday, January 17 2001, 08:18PM
Ganymedes right, 23 dam from 100 strength is lame. my con
mage has 20 damroll and he rips on wfw's at least 1 outa 4 rounds
with a 6kg weapon rolf. my str fighter ONLY seemed to rip
and damcap if raged (not counting low lvl crap ac chars/mobs)
and rage sucks becuase its buggy and breaks on every stun now
From: Dude
Wednesday, January 17 2001, 08:22PM
agreed, str hitting is pretty shoddy and needs a boost
also, removing old hit/dam eq from pfiles would make it
more fair to ppl who dont have 7 alts they can tap if
one DTs
From: McDonald
Wednesday, January 17 2001, 08:30PM
Don't some of those hits that land get blocked or parried,
or absorbed by ac etc?
The reason, in my opinion that str chars suck is cuz they use
very heavy weapons. It just seems thats the way the code
works here. A con char with a 17kg con weapon hits for
crap too, bout the same as str chars.
What was done with the stuff removed from pfiles? Anything
being given to the chars its removed from?
Didn't have any of the stuff removed so far as far as I
know, but I got horns and a weapon with damroll etc.
Wouldn't want it just stolen from my pfile, specially
since i had to pay for them.
From: Vampyr
Wednesday, January 17 2001, 08:43PM
I think str weapons are too crappy...
maybe their spec should be avg damage raised or max damage raised
a few points :P give them a boost, all str fighters suck crap
atm :P
From: Ganymede
Thursday, January 18 2001, 04:02AM
A couple of you guys are missing my point. The idea in boosting
natural dam rating for str fighters is to get AWAY from relying on eq
for damage, and that includes weapons.
The weapons aren't the problem. Back during old hit/dam gear, str
fighters were doing just fine with the exact same weapons we have now
(and I'm talking raw weight/dam and quality only). The extra damage they
did made up the difference from any blocked/dodged attacks. The reason
for this was the high damroll.
People with high str SHOULD have high dam, and no one else. That's why
it makes more sense to make dam bonuses totally dependent on str rather
than on bonuses to eq. And that's why I'm willing to part with my old
dam gear IF damroll for is scaled up for high strength. We know it
makes sense because it's already been done with hp gear. Now let's
finish the job.
Ganymede etc.
From: Israfel
Thursday, January 18 2001, 05:50AM
The idea of boosting natural dam rating for str or hitroll for dex would
or should I say, could, work only if the current new in-spec hit/dam items
were toned down even more. Or else we'd be back to the same old thing, I
have say...30 dam naturally from 100 str, now I pile on another hmm,
SSS and two brine rings. Back to 43 dam. And 43 dam isn't shabby. And I
give up even more stats for 2 maxed out luckstones, and 2 silver
feathers, and worn ridings. Which would give me, even if I had only 40 dex
a total of 14hitroll w/o agg, 19 w/o agg if I bless or flavor which
THEN translates into 28hit/43dam...which I can assure you is none too
shabby. Which pretty much takes it back to square one.
Currently there seems to be too much reliance on dex (hitroll is so
important, not much point of 50dam with 2hit, unless you assume that you
stun nonstop, and even then). Perhaps if things stay the way they are but
-flee- isn't dex dependent, something interesting might happen, though I
haven't really thought that out thoroughly. Much of dex's defensive power
seems to come from being able to run.
Another idea which I suggested before, and doubtless will be ignored again
-yes, make it more worth it to have high str/dex, but make it worth it
ONLY after a certain point. 30-90dex/str still net you the same hit/dam
bonuses as they currently do, but every point of dex/str after hmm...an
arbitrary 95 gives you 3hit/dam more. So it'll actually be worth it
to go over 91dex/str. E.g. a 91dex/str will have 21hit/dam but a
100 dex/str will have 36hit/dam (okay maybe X 3 is too high, I'm just
suggesting.) This has the effect that people who stack a stat only get
the "normal" bonuses from that stacking. But if you're 100dex/str or
str/dex well...you really don't have all that much left over for the
other stats, particularly if you're a mage or an augmenter...which in turn
should prevent stacking of hit/dam too much - because to make those 100
stats and still have mage/druid skills, you'll need all the other stat
points you can get. In addition, it would make 100 dex/str hit decently
without NEEDING to use hit/dam eq.
It'll give fighters more of a fair chance as well, since if they're willin
to drop perc to the theoretical 1...and spir to the same, could see a very
hard hitting fighter type with new eq, possibly matching old eq, while
weakening the jack-of-all-trades types. (which are my characters, ack. =P)
Israfel
From: McDonald
Thursday, January 18 2001, 07:30PM
Ganymede, the fact is, it still comes down to the fact most
of the damroll gear is str gear. Why isn't your str char using
this gear?
Its not like you see a lot of 5 dex 6 damroll items.
Actually I don't think the problem will be fixed till things
aren't dependant on dex.
Your weapon proficiency is based on con if your a con fighter
and str if your a str fighter. So why should your ability to hit
someone with your weapon be based on dex? It shouldn't only if
you use a dex weapon. A con weapon, is like a big club. To hit
someone with a big club, you need to be a big vital person.
To hit someone with a big heavy sword, you need to be strong to
get it moving quickly. You don't jerk heavy swords side to side
in a sneaky dex motion.
Hitroll should be based on your fight stat. Then things would
work. As far as landing attacks anyway.
The argument about fleeing not being based on dex, holds less
water, but then again sometimes logic has to be thrown out.
From: Sabu
Sunday, January 21 2001, 01:01AM
Gany, ive been preachin and pushin for a pfile change in old
hit/dam gear ever since they changed it. I agree with you
completely. I have a character with 48 damroll and 27 hitroll and
he STILL hardly ever damcaps, let alone rips. You see it like i
do... i see if we take out old hit/dam gear they could lower the
cap on damage ooor they would up the amount of rolls you get from
pure 100 stat. Either way works and then they dont need to factor
any out of spec item. Plain and simple, it would work and it would
be just about fixed to where we would like to see it.. i just
dont see why everyone is so blind to not realize this..
The ghost of Legend..
From: Lancelot
Monday, January 22 2001, 04:37PM
The problem is not str damage its DEX not taking any damage at all.
If I fight a con person I rip the hell out of them,
If I fight dex I lucky I get a rip on a stun, Dex takes
so little damage its insane, combine that with con, and per
unlock w
open w
w
close e
lock e the new equ system you got one nasty chara.
who
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