Posted by Dae on 12/16
alright, so let's be realistic, the days of forming
chant guh lak vya ex group of friends and causing havoc is over, people no
longer need to fear others, no longer need to depend on friends
in a way to back them in pk anymore, the days of of that are
gone, over, Now is this a bad thing? only to those who
lived in it, breathed it, those are the people that only signed
on to kill, or be killed, pk thrill seeker days are no more
in a year or more, most of us will be gone, no one will remember what
it was like except the imms who had alts then, or older players
it's a forgotten legacy, we are now much more friendly
is it sad? very, will we all miss it? probably
what can we do about it? nothing, because honestly
people will never stop complaining, or whining,
pkok is here to stay, it's not going anywhere,
it's hard to accept, I sympathize with you poetry,
and all the other hardcores, but legend will no longer
entertain you in that fashion, I hope you can find
the light like so many others,
-Dae
From: Kae
Monday, December 03 2001, 06:47AM
I know this has been said before, and it probably will be again, but
I still feel the need to point it out as an alternative to the two
options that Poetry lines up (oldschool vs. duels).
To get the excitement and thrill of never knowing who's going to jump
you when or where, accept many people. Accept clans. Have your clan
accept clans.
I'm finding as a player and as an immortal both, that even -with-
pkok in, there are some players who can't handle the heat and turn
pkill into whinefests on boards, channels, and even mudmails. I for
one don't want to waste more time playing neither kindergarten teacher
nor dealing with this as a mortal than I absolutely have to.
Yet I've managed to place my morts in a situation where I have yet
to 'ask for a duel' to get some excitement. I still get hunted. I
still die at inconvenient times. Yes, the ratio of jump is lower,
I'll give that.
I still feel that with a little careful planning, a little GM
cooperation, and most of all, a refusal to play with those who hide
behind pkok in the best of 'chicken' fashion (you won, I'm gonna reject
you until you're weak!), we can get a good gaming experience out of
this system.
Darth Kae
From: Craven
Monday, December 03 2001, 09:37AM
Its a great idea Kae, but much like communisim, it'll never work due to
human nature. We want the excitement, the fear, the fun of it all,
but when it comes down to it and we're 3 mil from perma, are willing
to stay on that line? Or maybe dusk just multi'd my friend twice,
am i willing to keep treading that line? Intentions are always for
the best, but intentions dont last long. I don't blame the imms or the
players for the current pk situation, but it is dead, whether you want
to admit it or not and no GM cooperation or imm involvment is going to
fix it. To be honest, I don't think even reinstating the old system
would fix this. To many of the older players have already abandoned the
game and I just don't think their is enough support. As for the few
"hardcore" players still around, I do sympathize, but your really wasting
your time. Sorry, move on like the rest of us and enjoy the memories,
but realize that they are just that. Memories.
- David, the player of countless PKillers, both before and after pkok
From: Poetry
Monday, December 03 2001, 10:08AM
I am defeated, I guess.
I forget that I have a ferocious killer instinct that enables me to
survive in the harshest of settings... and a very pleasant alternative
to Legend... a life in RL.
A lot of people that play here dont have this. People like me
wreak too much havoc to peoples online lives. I am fearless, but
most people arent. Thats the difference, right? You guys need
this place to be secure in the same way that I need RL to be
secure. I need to live in a country where there is government,
order, police.. where my safety is guarrenteed from bandits.
Some people seem to need this here on legend, because they no
viable alternative for interaction, acheivement, and selfworth in RL.
Since I do, my stakes are less. My values for this place are
different than most people... thats what I understand from all this
PKOK stuff.
This is a community. And the community has to be protected from
criminals much in the way that the RL community needs protection.
The only difference is that there are gods with absolute powers in
this world.
I wonder if we could figure out a way to deal with pkilling derelicks
in the same way the RL deals with them. Can we create a mob
police force? When people attack others in a non-duel situation
they gain a notoriety... certain mobs become agg to them, they
get refused rent in certain places, automatic police forces hunt
them down and jail them if caught. I could survive under those
circumstances..... and that would be a very interesting experiment
in legend's society! The more crime you commit.. the more shops and
places start to shun you and go agg on you. There could be a
couple very hostile areas that characters like that will be forced to
live in. The law abiding legend poplution can stay in more civilized
areas with a strong force of police to protect them. Asssasins
would have to sneak into cities undercover to jump anyone, etc.
I know its a lot of coding and wishful thinking, but it would create
one hell of an interesting microcosm of earth.
Anyway, Im just causing trouble. The potential of this idea
sounds great to me, but then again, no one ever likes my ideas
cause they differ so much than the legendite thats here to socialize
get married, and feel good about reaching level 50.
Poetry
From: Kae
Monday, December 03 2001, 11:28AM
Actually I'd LOVE to see more areas thinking along those lines.
It's not possible with the current code, but we get a bit better
toys to use every year the codebase continues to get expanded.
I don't think it will be possible to include players fighting
players, but at least where mobkill and mob interaction responding
is concerned, this is the road I'd like my areas to go.
--Darth Kae
From: Cheyla
Monday, December 03 2001, 11:43AM
PKOK-wise, it's not possible, but mob-kill-wise, it is, and has
already seen a bit of conceptual work in some places and is in
plans for one of the new areas being worked on.
Personally, I disagree with a mud-wide knowledge of your actions.
Realistically, few in ancient would have known of your actions in
industrial, or even between areas in one timeframe. And even if they
did, few would be likely to care.
Mob-wise (with no relation to PK), I'd like to see more of this
utilized on an area basis, it just takes a lot of planning and time
to properly implement. Crusades does a decent job in the general
sense, but it could be taken so much further than that.
Cheyla
From: Dae
Monday, December 03 2001, 03:12PM
I'd like to see cities ran by players or immortals
-a place a citizen can seek haven, have a house, shops
with multiple cities (7-8?) you choose to join based on
your class, or views of the world or something
if you kill a player from that city you are enemied
just a couple thoughts for the grinder, see if you
can find anything of value in there
From: Dae
Monday, December 03 2001, 03:14PM
by enemied I ment be killed when entering that area,
and the body ejected out
From: Kae
Monday, December 03 2001, 04:24PM
Forgive me. By 'possible' I mean 'doable without spending hours
and weeks tearing my hair out, and then even more debugging and
maintaining'. -grin- Cheyla's right, almost anything is possible,
but we still need to evaluate time spent doing vs. result.
That said, I want to suggest that if you do wander through an area,
and observe or commit an action that ought to have a response from
the locals, the IDEA channel is a good way to maybe actually
see it installed. You can also mudmail the area's maintainer
with more complex/longish ideas.
(My god, what am I doing?! More work!).
Seriously, though -- all areas get updated at some point or other,
and while an idea may sit in the logs for a long time, it will
eventually get considered, and rejected or implemented. No area
is ever "finished".
--Darth Kae
From: Chaykin
Monday, December 03 2001, 09:59PM
I liken oldstyle pk to the 60s...it was a time of danger, excitement and
fun for those who lived it, but in the end, people couldn't be trusted to
have the kind of self-restraint that's needed to maintain that kind of
lifestyle without lots of people getting hurt.
I like to believe that if enough of today's players had lived in that era,
there might be more support for some kind of old pk option, because the
mud really was THAT much more fun. But most people today seem to prefer
their pk tame, so I guess like Craven said, memories are what we will have
to live with. It's a shame.
Chay
From: Poetry
Tuesday, December 04 2001, 12:27PM
I like this thought.
I think it would be really cool in a PK sense, but hell, any
improvement is good. Sorry I get so mad on a board, but imagine
if you liked a place and then a bunch of people changed, and then you
started to not like it. That very fear is why PKOK went in... it just so
happens that Im a minority and you guys, that like the tamer version
of PK, are the majority.
Human nature and competitive instinct even temps oldskoolers to use
PKOK... hence old fogies like Dusk that lost their touch.
What can I say? I guess Im the biggest badass of them all.
Poetry
From: Nepon
Tuesday, December 04 2001, 12:35PM
i would just like to point out that most of the names i see when people
are complaining about misuse of the pkok system are the same "oldschool
hardcore playerkillers" (dont you just love the way they romanticize thems
elves?) that are trying to get the system changed. While i will admit that
this system has many flaws that can be exploited, a true hardcore pkiller
wouldnt need to resort to these methods. the problem isnt the system,
it is the players use of the system. the only change that i personally see
as truly being needed to change is having to be AA in order to accept AA.
this would fix the majority of problems that the "hardcore" pkillers have
while still leaving the option of individual "friendly" duels available
for "softcore" pkillers. I must admit however that after having played
under the old system of pk and the new one, i like the new one better
(only because you can turn it off long enough to regain xp and not perma,
but hey). anyway, as much as i hate to agree with imms, i still have to sa
that players are the ones causing the problems, and let's face it...
the imms are not gonna change the system again. they would rather see
legendmud go the way of the do-do, so it's really up to the players to
make playerkill "worth it" again.
-my 2 cents
-nepon
From: Craven
Tuesday, December 04 2001, 05:59PM
Expecting the players to do anything but exploit bugs
and cause as much mischief as possible is a pipe dream. Oh
well. I don't play here anymore anyway :)
From: Freja
Thursday, December 06 2001, 01:01PM
I just wanna say that I agree with Nepon. (wow, someone agrees with me).
-Freja
From: Poetry
Thursday, December 06 2001, 01:07PM
I guess Im an elitist... I dont ever reject anyone, I have no other
characters (except for one that is obsolete) to crossplay with, and I
junked my old eq the moment it became old.
Maybe Im the only oldskool pkiller left. That is actually a good thing
because now I could just play with myself all day!
Can you bring back dexmud on another port just for fun?:)
-dz
From: Akai_Hayate
Sunday, December 09 2001, 03:44AM
To nepon...about your idea that being AA would solve every problem and
complaint we have...shove it up your...didnt you read craven and chaykins
post? While us pkillers may be better than the rest of you, we are still
human, and can only take so much crap before we give up and start being
a pkok pansy (note this applys to most pkillers not me, as ill never rejec
anyone ever) And about then
you can reject all and gain xp so you dont perma crap...shove it as well
this character was down to 600k xp at level 50 Did I reject all? No hell
ive gotten back to just under 6 mil now, all while reject all, and a grend
grendel, I didnt plead with others not to kill me, I dont even run from
certain doom fights (also note I meant all while accept all, a few lines
ago) anyways, anyone who wants to use the Ohhh im so close to perma (16 mi
line, can kiss my shiney metal as...behind.
And you all suck, even poetry, cause you made me post twice in one night.
From: Motoko
Monday, December 10 2001, 09:00AM
As much as I hated the old pkill system I have to admit that it
certainly was more exciting. My first pkiller was back when this
was a dex mud, back when we had healing wells and everyone carried
med and root gear, no flux stats back then. Clan pkill was a big
thing. I remember having to work up to signing on my pkiller
because I knew that as soon as I did I was a target. The rush that
came from playing was incredible. Not any longer I'm afraid.
Since then I've had numerous pkillers, usually creating them after
major changes in the mud, but for me, it hasn't been the same since
that first one. It's seemed to have degraded steadly into what we
have now. Not sure what the answer is but maybe like Poetry
asked can we have dexmud back? hehe
Motoko
From: Stain
Wednesday, December 12 2001, 11:43PM
I guess I have to agree with Craven (wow, another hat down the drain)
and Poetry and simply resign myself to the fact that this mud will
never mix IC emotion and reason with pkill again. I never hated the old
pk system, but I for sure knew I was goin' down the moment I logged on
when I first hit the pkill scene. I got killed a lot. A whole lot. For
it I can race around the mud nowadays and 95% of the time or more hit
in game healing, grab herbs, have vials made, get more ammo, buy scrol
and a whole lot more without losing any hp's. Many of the times I was
killed back then were for ooc insults, out or range chars interfering
as best they could, gang bangs, multis, loots, my corpse was invised
more than once. Oh yeah, all that stuff happened to me on occasion.
But instead of bitching to the admins and gettin' all pissy about it
I learned from it, got better, and got even. I held grudges forever and
in the end my enemy and I ended up having a lot of fun. Sure it was ha
hard, and mean stuff like looting and corpse invising always sucks
but those are some of my best memmorys of LegendMUD. I never really
have taken this game very seriously, but back then winning in pkill
almost meant something, as did losing. A fight on one day could go
on affecting the pkill community (which was far less visibly devided
from the mobkillers back then) for weeks. Those are my best memmories
of this game.
Oh well, all that is lost. I will never (and with the exception of
the 'accept all' command) have never used any of the pkok options and
untill the day I stop playing here altogether I will remain AA. I think
I will be spending far less time around here, though. I already knew
pkill on LegendMUD would never do anything but degrade and rot away
untill it turned into nothing more than a 'duel arena' area, and this
certainly isn't the first or the fifth or the twentieth time it's been
put into text, either. For some reason, though, this time it just
made me feel so completely idiotic for thinking about how much better
the old system was that it just sorta took the wind outta my sails.
Like I say, I never took this game seriously at all, but now it dosn't
even matter the slightest bit to me.
-Stain's player, the 6 1/2 year old newbie.
From: Nepon
Sunday, December 16 2001, 03:41AM
sounds like you have issues akai....i mean, that crap about you being
better than "us"? i seem to recall beating you AND doc in SL when you
only accepted me and not the rest of the group...
(so much for that "I'll never reject anyone ever" crap that you are
spilling about)
I never said you had to reject all to gain xp when close to perma,
i simply said it was a good option.
And my opinion still stands, having seen pk tactics by losers like you
first hand (accept one member of a SL group with a surgeon at your back fo
example) that "hardcore oldschool pkillers" like you seem to think you are
are simply reaping the rewards of the way you play.
fight with a bit more honor (and allow others to fight with more honor)
and you may see the pk resurgence that you are looking for. but if you
keep resorting to pkok pansy (which is what you really are) tactics,
then you can expect more of the same from pkok! and this would suit me
just fine as i would love to see pkok drop so low that no one cares if the
imms drop pk altogether. Then we won't have to listen to a bunch of
crybabies whining about how they want the glory days of pk back!
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