Posted by Emrysia on 10/03
Dear fellow druids, those who are healed by them, and immorts.
As you all may or may not know, there has been a change recently
to a herb source in ancient greece. Those who once sold
unlimited numbers of herbs, now sell only 5 of
each herb per repop, which, according to my research
happens every 18 ticks.
As a druid I often make use of this herb source, t
though it certainly isn't my only source. However,
for large runs, having a large number of the same kind
of herb is a must. When lives hang in the balance and
people are depending on you to make and apply quickly,
you can't be scarmbling to find out what kind of herbs
you have left. (which when you look in you herb bag,
you often don't get a chance to see what's there because
the fight spam scrolls by so quickley.) Which is why
I always carry 2 herb-bags. One to hold the herbs i pick-up
along the way, and the other full of one kind of herb.
Considering the number of druids who use this source in
ancient greece, this recent changes seems rather extreme.
In my opinion a supply of 20-50 herbs (especially healing herbs)
per repop would be more reasonable.
If you think this is an extreme change and requires
some tweaking, please append your name to this post.
Thank you,
Emrysia
From: DeSade
Saturday, September 15 2001, 12:04PM
I agree!
DeSade
From: Sandra
Saturday, September 15 2001, 12:19PM
The unlimited supply was due to a bug and has been fixed. If 5 is
the max limit currently, then most likely that will be raised a
bit. Don't, however, expect 20-50 herbs to be sold per repop
by this vendor. There are plenty of herb vendors out there, and
plenty of herbs just lying around on the ground to be picked
up.
In any case, I would consider looking into the other herb vendors
in the game, and making use of them as well.
-Sandra
From: Sigrid
Saturday, September 15 2001, 12:28PM
As much as i'd like an easy (and cheap) supply of herbs
I'm afraid i'll have to admit than even before the witches
opened their shop in greece it was possible to fill
your dert bag every day.
Unless druids has been spawned in numbers close to
rabbits lately i do not fear for the weight of my
dert bag, more for my own weight.. it might take
a bit more effort to actually trace down the needed
herbs.
Sigrid Icelander
From: Kelvar
Saturday, September 15 2001, 01:50PM
this shouldnt have happened and i suppurt all druids
From: Sammael
Saturday, September 15 2001, 02:30PM
just going to be a lot rentier, since garlic is the "easiest"
to aquire, but also the rentiest, over 3 times the rent of
groundcover.
From: Dank
Saturday, September 15 2001, 09:59PM
I think this should be tweaked in all fairness to our druids here on legen
legend mud.
Dank, as in, Dark.
From: Milo
Saturday, September 15 2001, 10:37PM
Before the witches were put in, I and other druids got along just fine
by scavenging for herbs, and running to multiple vendors. The
unlimited herb supply was nice, but truthfully it made us soft. I
see more expected of druids now. While one that carried 100 herbs was
once considered well-stocked, now people don't even blink an eye at
200 herbs. Where once druids were brought on runs to mostly heal for
the big mobs, now they are expected to use poultices for hounds and
pirates. Bandages have become the limiting reagent.
As a result of this, druids are now more plentiful, and surgeons have
become scarce.
I don't believe that the herb supply should go back to being unlimited.
But we have to decide, do we want to go back to a paucity of herbs, and
perhaps see many druids become frustrated and quit that alt? Or to
continue with an abundant supply of herbs and see druids replace
surgeons as primary healers? Or something in the midst of this?
This is more than an issue of how we herb run, but of balance.
From: Emrysia
Sunday, September 16 2001, 12:08AM
In reply to some of the appends...
It was never my intention to suggest we go back to unlimited
herbs at the witches, only to suggest that 5 per re-pop
seems a drastic change.
I was never aware that it was a bug that caused the
witches to be unlimited. And I am perfectly willing to
visit the other herb vendors and or scavange my own.
Emrysia
From: WindChime
Sunday, September 16 2001, 05:16AM
As someone who runs druids often, a larger herb source is almost a must
now adays. Back when the limit was put in place, there were very few
druids who needed massive amounts of herbs because they primarily ran
solo or with just a select few people. Most people just didnt use healers
at first, prefering to sit and heal and chat. With runs like SL, and PD, a
and AT, where a druid is almost a requirement for a safe run, 5 of each
herb at repop is to hard to stock/restock herbs for a run. A druid has
to sit at the herb source for 10 repops to fill one bag, 20 for a rune.
With all the druids who tend to run now, that is almost impossible to
run between all the herb sources and try to restock herbs. And there
are not enough herbs to be found laying about to even begin to restock
or stock. While I agree, unlimited is off kilter, cant you at least
agree with the players and raise the sell limit to 10 or 20 per repop?
With the number of druids who require these herbs at a time, I do not
think this is an unfair request, or idea.
From: Celeste
Sunday, September 16 2001, 06:25AM
Okie, umm.
I totally and utterly disagree that making the unlimited greek
herbsellers more like the normal herbsellers was a bad thing.
As I understand it, augment is allowed to be as powerful as it is
even at minimum stats because it comes at the price of having to cart
herbs and bandages around. I was a druid "back in the old days" or
whatever, and I still am one now. I pk (not very much anymore! but a lot
at one point "in the old days") with druid pkillers. Before it was
fashionable (before nospam). Then, as now, I think that herb supplies
should _not_ be a matter of filling up a dert bag by pressing ENTER
10 times in a row.
I'm not saying I didn't like it, I loved it.
It indulged my lazy side, and I'm very lazy.
But in a way that may not be immediately obvious, it made augment
overpowered. Before, at least, if you used an entire DERT in a pk
fight, you'd at least have a while running on empty or only a
few herbs while waiting for the herbs to repop, if there were other
druids around. Even more so if you were having rent problems from all
the extra pk goodies. (Yay for pk goodies). With that unlimited supply,
the more subtle checks on augment were removed. I could fight someone,
not caring how many herbs I used because I could refill them by
pressing the ENTER key 10 times in a row. No more worries about, hmm,
should I carry more, in case I have a secondary jump before I have
herbs, etc etc.
I used to go to SL all the time. With 150-200 herbs. I disagree with
the people saying it's hard to maintain herbs. All 200 of my herbs were
fenugreek. ;) It just takes a little effort.
So ya, alas for unlimited herbies, but hey...I've missed chasing
fenugreek.
Ces!
(AFK)
From: Hevydd
Sunday, September 16 2001, 07:46AM
I have 7 DERT bags full of 15 rent healing herbs - and I never purchased
a single one of them. Maybe I need a life, but I believe that a real
herbalist, for RP reasons if not anything else, should be able to forage
for their herbs on their own, or at least use the sold herbs as purely
a backup or emergency source. I am proud of my collections ( I even used
non-druid alts to stock up on those herbs when playing and give them to
druid friends since, hey, herbs are free and since you see them, they're
useful so you might as well pick them for friends) but I realised people
didn't seem to bat an eyelash when I proudly displayed my available stock
for a run. Some people even questioned why I didn't heal when the tank had
less than 100hp to be healed while a surgeon was pumping away. It seems
that the availability of unlimited herbs (limited through cash, which
most people would be willing to pay anyway), has degraded the value of
herbs, supposedly the livelihood of a druid. Perhaps 5 a repop is too
slow, perhaps not. Having never bought a healing herb, I cannot comment.
However, I believe that if you just ran PD with your entire stock of'
herbs, you cannot really expect to be instantly available to heal for
SL or AT, given the power of your healing. Judicious use of herbs will
be the key to conserving herbs. Get your friends to help you stock up
if you need 50 healing herbs in 10 minutes after a run - it possible
with a BIT more effort, and a LOT more exploration of the MUD.
I don't know if AT still has that HUGE stock of herbs in there, but
if they do, then the situation is mitigated. That herb may not be the
most ideal rent-wise, but it's certainly very useful if all people
need the druid for is healing for a run, rather than companionship.
Hevydd the Ancient
From: Ganja
Monday, September 17 2001, 02:27AM
Well i'm glad to see its all fine and dandy that we all
get to run around like freaking chickens with our heads cut off
as all the herb-supplies dry up and become a complete pain
ya you all can maintain a bunch of dert bags for runs once in a while
when i'm actually active i use between 60-470 herbs a day
oh horror, i'm an active pkiller, i don't abuse any system to get xp
i don't futher a bunch of people by running them around all the time
i just purly use it to kill kill kill, now you all say that its "way too m
much for anyone to use and it over powers augment" well
i'm still sad to say i'm limited by 35 mana an augment
carrying bandages around having to deal with 3 rounds of skill
just to make it
i admit that the unlimited light-lowrent herb was out of balance
but for some of us who actually use our druids for more then group running
and healing our friends, the supply was nice it kept me able to do what
i like to do which isn't run around and ask everyone ask i smoke
through all my move beating other people to herbs, i ask "why not
just make it a less desirable herb"
make it the rentiest out of class healing herb there is because
i'll buy it w/o a problem so i can concentrate on doing what i like
which isn't being nice....
and so while your kicking snipers in the balls, and taking the
fun out of druids, when are you going to limit the amount
of bandages sold and bandage making material for those
annoying aiders?
-Ganja
From: Fairfax
Monday, September 17 2001, 07:12AM
Annoying aiders? What's wrong with first aid? It takes ages to recover
any useful amount of hps (at least at higher levels), and it's more for
us poor surgeons who have just hit something and have 10 minutes or so
of RL time to patch ourselves up. Compared with what you'd get from one
augmented poultice, it's really not much.
Of course, if you compare the time it would take a druid to start looking
for herbs, and making a poultice, using it, and THEN hunting down the
'annoying aider', first aid might be pretty useful indeed.
I also feel called to remind you that bandages and make bandage materials
are also to the benefit of druids, at least those who have the skill.
Fairfax
M.B.B.S. (Madras)
From: Rikimaru
Monday, September 17 2001, 07:02PM
the point is if you get unlimited healing supplies, i want it too
fairfax, just seems to walk out and slap you in the head, just thought
i'd point that out, and i love the way i don't think and act like
really have any basis on this subject, i don't even have a druid
From: Kyna
Monday, September 17 2001, 10:00PM
As someone who has one of those 'annoying first aiders' and who had
druids before the Ancient Greece update, I'd like to say that for
self healing capabilities, the druids win hands down.
First aiders are limited too - by the weight of the bandages, by the
limited amount of HPs that first aid gives, by the lag every single time
they use those bandages. If you were to calculate the HPs available in
a DERT bag full of fenugreek, by the time a first aider had made enough
bandages and healed that many HPs, enough fenugreek would have repopped
to restock the DERT bag.
My druids did a lot of solo running, and ran with 2 DERTs, yet I always
managed to have 20-40 fenugreek in my house, waiting to restock if my
DERTs ran low.
This is not a comment about the recent change, this is a response to
those who think first aiders are not limited - the biggest limit being
the amount of bandages a first aider can carry.
Kyna's player
From: Poetry
Tuesday, September 18 2001, 01:59PM
I was a druid years ago without all the spoils that you little kids
have gotten used to and taken for granted. Even if the witches provide
ONE herb per repop, its more than I had access to, and I did just fine.
Sorry, but its very hard to have sympathy. There are greater problems in
legend that need help... stop crying over the loss of a bug that offered
you conveniences that have spoiled you.
Poetry
From: Giovani
Tuesday, September 18 2001, 07:52PM
You druids complain too much. I have a druid as an alt and I never
have trouble getting herbs. I just tell everyone that I'll be back in 10
and I run around with my triggers going haywire. Sure it's spammy and it
takes a little effort and knowledge of where the herbs actually grow, but
you'd be surprised to find that all the herbs you need generally grow
close to large towns (With the exception of Indus).
-Giovani
From: Lachesis
Tuesday, September 18 2001, 11:54PM
i enjoy being an "old school" herb runner. I hardly even buy them,
unless i really -have- to. That takes the fun out of it. I mean,
that buying the herbies is always an easy way. Where's the challenge?
Lachesis
From: Wilhelm
Saturday, September 22 2001, 05:01AM
Indeed, herbs are few and far between, and unless you intend
to scatter herbs far more widely, or provide more herb sources, it
does seem that more herbs should indeed be available in greece.
Failing that, why not just give all herbs the keyword herb,
and allow augmented poultices to use two herbs with the same
effect?
this would also serve to fix some of the problems
From: Sandra
Saturday, September 22 2001, 11:20PM
Herbs are few and far between? Hardly. You should maybe go out looking
a little better, I think.
-Sandra
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