healing in general|U6

Posted by Poetry on 01/10

From: Angharad Tuesday, January 09 2001, 09:44AM Those are some major changes you're suggesting there. It's a little more than a 'tweak', just to improve one char type - fighters. I love chars that can self-heal. I once tried to play a straight fighter, and quickly decided it wasn't for me, due to healing. If people want to play fighters with high hit, high dam, high HPs then they need to realise that the price of that is self-healing. My chars, whether druids, surgeons or mages all give up some fighting ability so they can self heal, among other things. I don't pkill. As far as I'm concerned my healing spells or skills arent unbalancing, precisely because I don't pkill. I don't see why all my chars should have one of their major advantages taken away from them. It would be like saying to a con fighter, your major advantage is high HPs, well, we're going to downgrade that because some other char type doesn't like the fact that they don't have it. And consider low levels - my young creates rely on glowing roots a lot more heavily than my high level creates. Its their level 3 spell. You can say to a high level char yes we've downgraded your healing ability, so go find a healer. But what about the low level chars? Healers get faster xp grouping with high levels or even with lowbie fighters than they do grouping with lowbie mages. Leave healing as it is, please. (Although giving creates a similar spell to glowing roots in terms of healing ability, but without the need to be hungry enough to eat would be nice.) Angharad's player |U6

From: Cumference Tuesday, January 09 2001, 12:45PM can't say i agree with Poetry's tweaks but i really like the idea of taking away cure crit giving the create 20-25heal and cause mages just cure light |U6

From: Cerberus Tuesday, January 09 2001, 02:11PM -cackle- Can't really agree with the major changes poetry mentions. Playing characters without healing ability is sooooo slow and boring. Don't see why cause should lose cure crit if creates keep roots. Less healing in the game just means more people sitting around complaining about it taking too long to heal. -cackle- Cerberus |U6

From: Kosminski Tuesday, January 09 2001, 02:33PM Although Poetry did not address the specifics, here is why 'healing' mid-fight is unbalanced from a PK perspective: A 100 dex/mind char is balanced with a 100 con/mind by the fact that the con fighter has more HP and the dex fighter hits better (in theory). Now, when the dex mage heals 400 HP he is back at full, whiles the con mage who heals 400 HP is at maybe 75% full. Now when they re-engage who will win? Am I saying we should take out healing? Nope. Am I saying that healing should be based on max HP? Nope. I do not know the solution. I can tell you how EverQuest solved this problem, but the fight system there for melee is 100 times more complex than here so it does not apply. To fix it here we may need to make healing have serious skill lag AND make it so you cannot heal in safe rooms or one person rooms or any other type of room that you can be safe from attack in (this would only apply to PK damage, or course). A. Kosminski |U6

From: Vandervecken Tuesday, January 09 2001, 03:47PM Good God! Stop the Madness! Now the vocal minority want to cripple magical healing. I think it's time we all remembered that LegendMUD is not a pkill MUD. It's a MUD with the option to pkill as an extension of role-play. Yes, pkill is unbalanced. Do you know why pkill is unbalanced? It's because some players are very, very smart at building pkillers and others are dumber than bricks. And there's no way to code around this fact of life. You don't have a right to win at pkill -- especially if you insist on playing a character type which is universally known to suck at pkill. Eighty percent of winning at pkill is in how you build your character. If you choose to build a character which is universally known to suck at pkill, please don't blame the system, find a mirror and blame the person staring back at you. Now normally I wouldn't care what happens in the pkill world, but the incessant whining for change by the vocal minority is beginning to affect my game play in two ways: First, directly of course, throught their cries for retroactive equipment changes. Because the vocal minority is too lazy or too stubborn to build from one of the successful pkiller templates, the equipment which I've played so long and hard to acquire and maintain may be yanked to compensate them for their reluctance to build a viable pkiller. Yes, it's a selfish motive on my part, but I think seniority should have its rewards. Secondly, it distracts and frustrates the Imms. The Imms must use a lot of time and energy to respond to these incessant demands and implement changes to 'fix' them -- time and energy which would be better used in finishing skilltrees and in the building of new areas. Ironically, once skilltrees goes in, we'll have to go through a balancing process anyway. Why not just suspend further tweaking of the MUD until the new system goes in? In the meantime the builders can concentrate on building new areas for us to explore -- my favorite aspect of the game. Many people have expressed that pkill as it exists is not fair. Well, life ain't fair and this is not a pkill MUD. The semi-official purpose of pkill is to provide an extension to role-play. As such it's unimportant who wins and who loses since it shouldn't be happening as much as it does. The Quake-style pkillers will all scream bloody murder when they read this paragraph and vehemently object that that is not how they wish to play. Save your ink. I'm not interested in pkill for pkill's sake. I wish the Imms would come out once and for all with a statement of the intended purpose of pkill and set their priorities accordingly. No longer should the tail wag the dog. So in conclusion, To the Imms: Stop trying to tweak the MUD to provide the instant gratification demanded by the vocal minority, and get back to work on skilltrees and the building of new and bigger areas for us to explore. Incorporate their concerns in skilltrees if you want, but don't let yourself be diverted from your primary task. Keep all your work on the new system. To the whiners who have built a character that sucks at pkill and blame the system instead of themselves: Get over yourself! You know what character will succeed at pkill in this environment. Go build one of those! Archive the loser you're playing now until skilltrees are implemented. Who knows, he/she may be good then. With much love and affection, Captain Vandervecken |U6

From: Blackthorne Tuesday, January 09 2001, 05:31PM Vandervecken's statement makes perfect sense to me. I used to talk with my friends about the vocal minority and silent majority. Im glad someone else more eloquent then I finally put up a statement that, in my view, represents the majority of players. I would definetly like to hear the top Imms comments on this. Unfortunetly, and I might be wrong about this but there might be in the Imm staff a great deal of the vocal minority. Thats why these ideas are able to get pushed through. I dont think that anyone is actually trying to make this great mud worst through their ideas and changes. It just takes the maturity of those in charge to make decisions on the direction the mud takes. Sometimes they dont represent the majority, sometimes they do. They really dont have to, this isnt some democracy. Dont be fooled into thinking that it is. |U6

From: Sandra Tuesday, January 09 2001, 05:50PM I don't really have any plans for removing the healing mobs or items from the game at this time. I don't see it as a problem currently, but it is always something that we have to look at carefully when adding. I can't speak for the coding side of things, however I do know that Ea was tossing about ideas on how to change healing roots to something a little better for creates so that they don't have to starve constantly. -Sandra |U6

From: Rahvin Tuesday, January 09 2001, 06:38PM by god, finally a statement from a non-pk person that makes sense, and that I agree with whole heartedly, (kudos vander) and a append in the same message from a imm on making somthing -better!- by god! this made my day =) suddenly happy- High Lord Rahvin |U6

From: Conspiracy Tuesday, January 09 2001, 07:10PM here's what pisses me off to no end. as a fighting druid, I carifice quite a bit for the powers of being able to heal myself.. now, there's a god damn ring that heals as much as I can heal, for 2200 rent, and has 0 god damn skill lag. we jerked +hp gear, in order to daowngrade dex, and then we add this ring? what the hell are you guys thinking? the damn ring is better than +hp gear, IMO. whatever, guess I'll have to go 100 spirit/mind to outheal a 2200 rent ring. -Conspiracy, pissed the hell off. |U6

From: Conspiracy Tuesday, January 09 2001, 07:13PM |U6

From: Lancelot Tuesday, January 09 2001, 10:22PM PREACH ON BROTHER!!!!! Im glad someone said it finally. |U6

From: Angharad Wednesday, January 10 2001, 04:41AM Wow, I'm impressed. When I saw all the appends I thought 'I'm in for some major flaming here' but Vandervecken said the things I was thinking but not game enough to say. I had a spam augmentor. Gone now due to pkill balance. I had chars with old hit/dam eq. EQ ripped due to pkill balance. I had chars with +HP gear. That's in the process of being changed due to pkill balance. I have always played dex, apart from like 3 chars, in my time on Legend. Ea! is currently looking at the way dex works, due to pkill balance. I don't see how a non-pkiller's ability to do or use these things affect balance. So what if I can kill mob A better/faster/easier than another char type. Or take longer/can't kill mob B, while another char type could do it easily. Who were my old chars hurting? Yet all gone in the name of balance. Sometimes balance can be taken too far, and some of the FUN gets sacrificed in the process. Angharad |U6

From: Ganymede Wednesday, January 10 2001, 05:40PM I'm sorry, but while it may be in vogue for some of you to carp about the changes as being solely due to pkill, you're way off base. A sniper or mage with 50 con and 550 hp is just as unbalancing in mobkill as it is in pkill. And what makes +hp gear any more "right" for you to have just because you don't pkill with it? What is your gripe here, that it's going to make mobkill harder for you? Yes, it will. But it's no more logical for you to be able to solo mobs easily just because there isn't another player on the other side of the fight. Ganymede etc. |U6

From: Aquilante Wednesday, January 10 2001, 05:56PM I think I already have suggested this: but i will give it a try again. If you want to weaken the healing power in pkill why don't use a reduction of healin when in pkill timer? I mean when we pkill we deal 80% (or whatever percentual is) of damage taht we deal to mobs, now why when we heal in pkill if the same (or even less) percentual of hp would be healed we could actually bvalance out things..and non-pkillers won't ever be touched. To make clear my proposition: curecritic at 100 mind heals about 80 hps at 100 mind?...when in pkil timer let it heal 50-60 hp for same mana used as before, goinf to healers instead of healing 100hp heals 75?...etc etc I guess the healing reduction should be equal to reduction of the damage dealt (difference between pkill and mobkill) to be fair. Not sure if this change is feasible for coder, but i think that with the pkiller timer maybe would be possible and would not interfere with non-pkillers life. Aquilante |U6

From: Huginn Wednesday, January 10 2001, 07:55PM Conspiracy, Take a break from being pissed, at least until after Friday. As has been stated previously, spelltools (of which the ring is one) are being changed to include lag. Huginn |U6

From: LadyAce Wednesday, January 10 2001, 09:17PM I don't know if it'll make y'all feel any better, but my first thought after reading the original post was that it wasn't a reasonable thing to do because of the impact on non-pk'ers or mobkill in general. If you think people heal too much in your pk battles, either agree not to heal or don't fight with people who run off to healers. Or run to those healers yourself and make it a part of your strategy. -LA |U6

From: Aginor Wednesday, January 10 2001, 10:15PM just my two cents, i think the best way to make in-game healing stuff not abused by PK would be to just make the PK timer apply to it. If you can't go ooc, you can't get stoned, so to speak. If that affects non-PK somehow, I'd like to know how. But that's just my opinion. Feel free to flame me. - Aginor C., already getting the fireproof pants. |U6