hate to do it, but...|U6

Posted by Kosminski on 01/11

From: Wyvern Friday, January 05 2001, 08:44PM sigh junky for pk! |U6

From: RedGeust Friday, January 05 2001, 09:08PM Do the imms even look at these items before they impliment them, or is it just random? This item is totally disgustingly overpowered, I can't fathom how it is supposed to be more balanced than the old item. Stop drinking you're collective bathwaters. |U6

From: RedGeust Saturday, January 06 2001, 12:26PM How about we tone them down to be like they were as sanctuary rings? |U6

From: Darkheart Saturday, January 06 2001, 09:20PM why not up their rent about three times, then make them become hp version of the chalice? dh |U6

From: RedGeust Saturday, January 06 2001, 09:51PM OK some constructive criticism. A few ideas as to what might make this item possibly balanced. - make the mob way way way way way harder. (still not a good solution by itself) - make it necessary to at least WEAR the ring to use it - Give it some lag, 10 uses in 10 pulses is sick - follow DH's previous suggestion (made sense to me) - change it to the old sanc rings, those were less unbalancing. I'd really like to see more eq addressed towards fighters that cannot heal themselves, and while this is a step in that direction, its also a step in 9 or 10 other directions, all of which scare me! |U6

From: Sandra Saturday, January 06 2001, 09:56PM There will be a lag on using spelltools in friday's code update. As for making the ring like the old version, sanctuary is gone from the game, and won't be back. So that option is impossible. As for why it took a few days to get a response to this post: Smartassed comments like your first will get you squat. If you want me, or any of the other immorts to respond to these posts, then I suggest that you use your head before writing them. -Sandra |U6

From: RedGeust Saturday, January 06 2001, 10:03PM How about using your head before allowing items like this to get into the game? Yeah yeah, I know its a harsh statement, but I was totally blown away by the power of this one little item. I've often seen it preached the imms are working towards a balance here. I can accept that. I've also come to accept that mistakes can be made. We'll chalk this up as one. But umm, leaving it for days before responding or addressing the problem because of what you call a "smartassed comment" is something I'd expect from a child. (as is the smartassed comment I made, but I digress) If its balance that is to be achieved, or at least sought out, then when something shows up that is blatently overpowered like this, it should be scrutinized, not ignored because someone called you a bad name. |U6

From: Sandra Saturday, January 06 2001, 10:09PM I never said that we weren't addressing the problem. I said I didn't respond to the post. I haven't the time, nor the desire to to put up with comments like that. You want to suggest stuff, suggest away, and we'll respond if we have anything to add. You want to be a smartass, don't waste the miniscule amount of space that your posts will take up. I'm fairly tired of having to put up with comments like that, and I think its safe to say that I won't anymore. |U6

From: Kosminski Sunday, January 07 2001, 01:05PM it was my original post, and i didn't think i was being a smartass, not did i give away any in-game info .... |U6

From: Cheyla Sunday, January 07 2001, 01:44PM Sandra's comments were not directed at you, Kosminski - you raised a concern and a request that something be looked at and reconsidered, very simply, without insult. Sandra's comments were directed at Redgeust's posts and the "bathwater" comment. And I completely agree with Sandra that the insult was completely unnecessary. I see people posting on the boards about how the general atmosphere here needs to improve, needs to become more mature... and see people wonder why the immortals are often unmotivated or have an attitude... It is insults like this that do nothing to improve the atmosphere of this place. In talking to Redgeust, I know the insult was not directed towards me in any way, but I still took offense to it... and am still wary of posting this here - or doing anything for this MUD overall. Any insult carelessly flung around, regardless of it is specifically directed at someone, at the morts, or the immortals in general does nothing to increase anyone's morale. Constructive, polite commentary is the best way to go, insults (personal or not) are certainly not necessary in an OOC forum, from anywhere, directed anywhere. Cheyla, insulted more than once by this thread. |U6

From: Chocorua Sunday, January 07 2001, 01:46PM I can't always say that I agree with the other immortals here about changes but you will NEVER see me insult them in public over it. Redgeust's immature attacks are quite possibly the number one reason that you don't see more changes and additions made to the game. Everytime soemthing unpopular gets added or soemthing popular gets changes all people can do is insult each other. In this case Redgeust's comments we so far over teh line that I am suprised that Sandra even bothered to respond at all. I would likely have ignored the post and not wasted the time responding Obviously I don't take my own advice because I am responding. more because I think a show of support for teh immortal staff was needed. Especially from me because this kind of imature attack is quite often what one might get from me in a more private setting. There is a rule that I have been holding myself to recently (most of the time) If I am angered by soemthing I don't respond in writing for 48 hours. I give myself time to write a response and then read it when i am less angry. If by the time 48 hours is over it still seems worth responding or posting I do. In the future.. try tact... understading.... You don't know all that goes on here, noone does. Don't jump to conclusions without asking a well thought out and polite question first. FLame away Chocorua |U6

From: Bruson Sunday, January 07 2001, 02:44PM Yes, the bathwater comment was unnecessary. But to be totally honest Sandra and Choc, I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of RedGeust's post. It staggers me that such an item could ever have been put into the game with what seems to be no forethought as to the ramifications of it, and in all this chest-thumping and crying about the bathwater insult, I'm afraid the real point here is getting lost. Episodes like this are how the "oldstyle" eq which immortals seem to hate so much gets into the game, and how we end up needing widespread eq changes and changes to pfiles. Perhaps more caution when designing items is in order? On the whole I like the job immortals do, and I know that it can be frustrating to have idiotic comments like RedGeust's last line made, but don't let that distract us from the fact that we need a little more restraint here when putting items like this into the game. Bruson et al. |U6

From: RedGeust Sunday, January 07 2001, 04:22PM OK, gonna post to this before it gets any more out of hand. First off, I sincerely apologise to the imm staff about the less than tactful comments in my earlier posts. They were fueled by emotion, and as Chocorua states I'd have been much better off to sit and ponder for a couple days before posting about this. Hopefully a lesson learnt on my part. Moving on to the really IMPORTANT issue here, is the item itself and what is to be done with it. I'd hate to have my comments pull attention away any more from what the real important issue here is, the item and its extreme anount of power. Please if you can, put aside my juvinile comments and concentrate on the issues at hand. How this item got into the game in the first place, how powerful it really is, and how to rectify the situation. I agree with Bruson's assessment on the "old eq" too, this is precisely how things like this get started. Again, my bad. Please go back to your regularly scheduled programs. RedGeust... |U6

From: Huginn Monday, January 08 2001, 11:45AM Well since we're down with the insults and other nastiness, let's focus on the fact that something was done. The problem with spelltools in general has been addressed, at least at first pass. As Sandra said in her post, there'll be a lag now for any of the spell tools, so no more zapping someone with all the charges, one per pulse. So the amethyst now seems to me to be something that'll be pretty useful for some characters but not the type of thing that everyone is going to want to rent. Huginn |U6

From: Bruson Monday, January 08 2001, 01:06PM However, my point was less about the amethyst itself, and more about items like it and how we can perhaps try to avoid similarly overpowered items from even getting into the game in the first place, thereby saving everyone a lot of aggravation when changes have to be made as a result. Bruson et al. |U6

From: Huginn Monday, January 08 2001, 03:05PM I understand your point. But take a step back for a second and lets look at this another way. There are specs for item abilities, stats etc. But the problem here wasn't one item. It was the mechanic by which the item could be activated. That's been changed, so future items of this type will also not be overpowered, given that they have eqivalent powered spells. So yes, this discussion thread had the desired effect, it fixed something that was wrong. Builders and coders don't compare notes about everything, that's just not possible if you have a system with any significant detail, but as happened here, if something does appear, its taken care of. Huginn |U6

From: Lancelot Monday, January 08 2001, 07:52PM I would REALLLY like to see that Damn Main gauche removed, or make it so it cant be HELD only weilded |U6

From: Dayde Thursday, January 11 2001, 11:04AM I agree with Bruson's statements, perhaps there should be more player test on the test mud like in the past Also, I think there should be a completely thought out strategy and completed solution to problems like unbalanced gear before announcing it or removing it from the game (like with the black horseshoe) I personally would just like to see more positive input from the players before big changes actually go in -Dayde |U6