poll|U6

Posted by McDonald on 12/23

From: Vampyr Sunday, December 17 2000, 07:53PM I agree that's all |U6

From: Dashiva Sunday, December 17 2000, 08:13PM nod |U6

From: Lancelot Sunday, December 17 2000, 08:43PM Tituba dose the same thing |U6

From: Shmeck Monday, December 18 2000, 08:28AM I agree, this mud is based too much on fixing things that aren't broke |U6

From: Dune Monday, December 18 2000, 10:26AM I think I have to agree too. A crafty player that can kill a tough mob by using a lot of resources and some planning shouldnt get shafted by cheap coded specials. There should be a reward for these players, not a punishment. Hey, I have an idea.. lets make Abbot Sugar SLAY anyone that fights him solo:). That would solve it! And btw, I soloed Hibbens=p |U6

From: Sandra Monday, December 18 2000, 12:39PM Heh, -I've- solo'd Hibbens. The point is to make them difficult for the reward they give. If their difficulty doesn't match their reward, then yea, we will make sure that it does. There will always be -some- way to solo something if the player(s) are smart, and crafty enough. It's just a different challenge. -Sandra |U6

From: Shemp Monday, December 18 2000, 01:36PM well abott's reward isn't the exp thats for sure ... and the chalice has a way longer respawn time that abbot - so you could kill and it be a waste of time. and he's pretty hard as is, not impossibe, but about right imo! |U6

From: McDonald Monday, December 18 2000, 04:27PM Duh, the point is, you shouldn't base these things on how often the mob is killed by a single person, without looking at how they did it. Just because someone solos them does not mean they are too easy, or the reward too high. All I hear imms saying is if you feel a mob is too hard then tell someone. Well that is fine and dandy, it really is, but you go around making mobs harder and worth less xp, that noone complained about being too easy, as far as I can tell. I've said it in the past many times, don't give mobs stupid specials that automatically cause them to do a certain amount of damage when x occurs. Give the mob more hp, lower its ac, whatever. I think the real problem here is, noone seems to agree with most of the changes to the mobs. You decide they are too easy, based on something. Well it looks from the poll its based on how often they are soloed. Suger has been on this mud for how long??? A long time right??? Has he been broke all this time? I don't think so. The main thing is the specials though, you add a special that has no way to be saved against. This isn't playing fair. Maybe the mobs need to be able to have better stats. Say maybe down to -200 ac, something, just quit using the stupid specials. Now I agree all the options in the poll weren't like this, but the reasoning behind putting any of the options is flawed if your basing it only on how often they are soloed. So many of the mobs now have some stupid move that puts you on your butt, with no chance to dodge it. What the hell is up with that! All we can do is make a trigger to stand. |U6

From: Yvonne Monday, December 18 2000, 05:25PM Eh, what's the difference? Who the hell kills Suger for XP anyway? |U6

From: Zafira Monday, December 18 2000, 06:05PM The true crafty player is rewarded more by the imms making mobs more difficult, giving them a challenge, than by any xp, money, or equipment. So quit whining at every little change! |U6

From: McDonald Monday, December 18 2000, 07:53PM I say your wrong Zafira, if they watch how you kill something then make it so you can't do it anymore. That does not reward craftiness. It punishes it. There is only so many ways to solo something. |U6

From: Ian Tuesday, December 19 2000, 04:09AM I agree with McD. The imms needs to leave stuff that aren't broken alone and work on..-gulp-... skill trees more? Ian Fawkes, still looking for his lucky charms! |U6

From: Malia Tuesday, December 19 2000, 04:31AM I dunno, here's an odd thought. Have you eve considered that maybe the imms might want a mob or mobs to behave a certain way, and once they find out it/they aren't, they'll fix it and fiddle with it until it does? Or here's one, maybe that the mob in the poll being the only teacher for a certain thing, it SHOULD be made more difficult so that it's around more often to learn that certain thing? Nah, probably not. Right? I mean, the imms must just sit up there and watch everyone fight everything every minute of every day, and ponder different ways to make the lives of the people that come to play their game more miserable. One last thing: Builders don't work on skill trees, coders do. And as Ea has said repeatedly over the past uh... 6 months? They're on hold. So, even if builders worked on them, they wouldn't be doing so currently, and they should always, -always- update their areas to be current, interesting, challenging, and of course to give you something to complain about. Malia |U6

From: McDonald Tuesday, December 19 2000, 05:05AM Well first of all, they don't watch, they log it. Second, the poll doesn't say any of the things you say. It says the mob is being soloed too much, thats all. I guess on the last point we disagree. Wait, just about everyone else has disagreed also. Don't update if it ain't broke. Current? what the heck does that mean? Making things in spec? Well the specs were already published beforehand. Interesting, purely subjective crap. Challenging, all the mobs are challenging enough as is. As for the last point, geez, I'm so grateful they screw things up so I get to complain. You sound like one of those people that can't stand to see anything about imms criticized. |U6

From: Mugwump Tuesday, December 19 2000, 09:40AM I agree with Malia that the mob should be around more often, being a skill teacher and all. However, I don't think that, short of making it a L51 mob, making him harder is going to achieve that goal. Besides, the poll doesn't raise issue with how often Suger is dead, but rather how often he is killed by "less than the 3 level 50 characters he was intended for". I think the key point here is the issue of risk to reward. People will find ways to get around any risk if the reward is high enough. (For example, Sainglend was often soloed or taken by small groups.) The problem with Suger is that he has 3 seperate rewards that people might be after... and xp isn't one of them. What makes this worse is that two of those rewards aren't always there, so naturally people kill him over and over again! Look how often Cian is dead, I bet you'll see the same thing. |U6

From: Sandra Tuesday, December 19 2000, 12:15PM We log mobkills? Heh, I can't believe you actually think that. =P But hey, whatever flips your burger. -Sandra |U6

From: McDonald Tuesday, December 19 2000, 01:30PM Well geez, let me take back some of that credit I gave you. I guess you really do just sit there and watch ppl kill it. Very bright indeed. |U6

From: McDonald Tuesday, December 19 2000, 01:32PM Furthermore, thats one more reason the poll is crap. You say it's killed by less than 3 L50, but you don't even log it. What you gonna say you did a random statistical sample, plz. Gimme a break. |U6

From: Sandra Tuesday, December 19 2000, 02:43PM We don't log fights. We've never logged fights. Most likely we never will log fights. We do, however, keep track of what level character has killed a mob. If this is what you meant by 'logging', then yes, we do do that. Hope that clarifies things. -Sandra |U6

From: McDonald Tuesday, December 19 2000, 07:18PM Yes, thats basically what I meant. Sorry for the misunderstanding. |U6

From: Cheyla Tuesday, December 19 2000, 07:27PM I can't speak for any of the other builders, but I, for one, often pop in on people I notice killing certain mobs in my area, to make sure they are acting the way they are supposed to. Porohuktuk and the polar bear are prime examples - I have watched many different people kill both of them and talked with them afterwards to see how balanced they were, how they could be improved, or to see why they weren't working as intended. Basic mobkill numbers don't necessarily do this, but they give us a hint that the mobs aren't necessarily working the way they were intended to or that maybe the reward is just a bit too high/low, or whatever. A level 13 character solo'd a level 50 mob that was intended to take 3 50's to kill? Or, the mob is being solo'd more often than not and it wasn't intended to be mainly a solo mob? While you may not see me standing there watching the fight (I could be invis, switched into the mob, one of the alts in the group, or you might not even be in the group), while the fights may be staged on a test mud, we don't just arbitrarily look at this stuff and pull solutions out of thin air. Cheyla |U6

From: McDonald Wednesday, December 20 2000, 08:54AM I agree Cheyla, that can be very important for new areas. |U6

From: Shadae Wednesday, December 20 2000, 03:40PM Did Charity come to this conclusion, or is this a conclusion that any immort can come up with, as far as changing a mob in an area that "doesn't fit the roll it was intended to" or whatever... Curious for future moanin, Shadae |U6

From: LadyAce Thursday, December 21 2000, 10:52AM I can see a few different scenarios: - a builder looks to change their mob cuz it's not working the way they meant it to (true in this case) - a mob is clearly buggy (causing crashes, written acts just don't trigger the way they were meant to, etc) in which case if the builder wasn't around to fix the problem, anyone could - Sandra as head builder or Kaige as implementor determined that a mob was a problem So a random imm couldn't just up and mess around with another imm's creation, if that's what you meant. -LA |U6

From: Nicotine Saturday, December 23 2000, 08:53AM It don't matter how tough it is, the mob still needs to be killed for the key. Move that elsewhere for starters. |U6