Posted by Skar on 10/07
Of all the things I have to deal with in pk, I'd have to say that
I find wimpy to be the most infuriating. Can we take it out and have
pkillers rely on the flee command instead?
A pkiller attacks me and as soon as I land a blow, he's in the next room
where he can wait out his skill lag and come at me again. I can't rely on
my spells because I get hit with the spell lag and a small mana hit if the
attacker is no longer in the room.
I understand that high-dex characters aren't supposed to get hit as much,
but I think this kind of strategy sucks. Grant high dex characters more
damage or something. Increase kick or backstab damages, but I hate wimpy
in pkill.
I don't care if wimpy remains in mobkill, just prevent pkillers from
relying on it.
From: LadyAce
Monday, October 02 2000, 07:49PM
...wow. What an interesting idea, and one I hadn't heard of before.
It appeals to me initially, but I haven't fully pondered what it
might mean in a broader sense.
-LA
From: Drifter
Monday, October 02 2000, 08:33PM
Not many pkillers "rely" on wimpy throughout an entire fight
just headbutt and get priority then you will love wimpy, because
it will screw your opponent up :P
From: Mariachi
Monday, October 02 2000, 09:11PM
I hafta agree, I think the attack/flee strategy is kinda lame, combat-
wise, while obviously very effective, particularly against mages, who
suffer more than anyone else. (we don't lose hp or have skill lag for
trying to bash/kick/head someone who isn't there...)
If it were possible to pull wimpy in just pk, i think it's a nifty idea
M-
From: Archmage
Monday, October 02 2000, 09:57PM
I think this idea of removing max wimpy is a good one.
First of all, inspire will be much easier to catch.
Second, why don't you go intot that person's room after
he/she flees?
Third, if you don't have priority, being max wimpy will suck for you
Forth, don't like fighting max wimpy people? reject them or tell them
you rather not fight max wimpy people. They might turn it off.
Fifth, i made a mistake at the beginnning of my append. Supposed
to say not a good idea, but i'm on a crappy terminal computer
and the keyboard sucks...combined with my bad typing, you're
lucky i'm even spelling good.
Archmage Archmage Archmage Archmage Archmage Archmage Archmage
From: Splat
Tuesday, October 03 2000, 02:36AM
Umm, despite priority being messed up at the moment, the way
wimpy kicks in ignoring your skill lag is unique to Legend's
fight system and I'd hate to see it go. There's nothing more
boring than standing toe to toe til one of you dies.
From: Blackthorne
Tuesday, October 03 2000, 02:59AM
See your point Splat, but couldnt you still manualy flee?
Maybe taking it out is a bit drastic, how about slaping a
sort of skill lag if flee because of max wimpy. Im really
interested in hearing what the big bruisers who use this
stratagy have to say about it.
Blackthorne de'Dannan' just a tad less frustrated that Skar
because he has no offensive spells
From: Jesus
Tuesday, October 03 2000, 06:25AM
more times than not, against snipers, I find that if I special
the round wimpy kicks in, I'm backstabbed before my skill
lag is gone, before I've even had a chance to move.
I think this is Skar's point, and I completely agree with him.
the way it's set up now, a sniper doesn't have to fight
while waiting out his skill lag, I see it as a huge advantage,
and with dex on the rise again (shudder) we're going to
see more and more of it.
it's not a thing of 'I won't fight you because you use it'..
From: Splat
Tuesday, October 03 2000, 08:46AM
Well, I find it damn hard to fight those at max wimpy
with my dex mage, I miss at least half my spells and I
will usually be half dead by the time I get in an inspire
before the target flees. Yet with all that, I still prefer
it the way it is. Manually fleeing rarely servers a purpose,
the mage won't often miss spells and inspire will get you
for sure, may as well play another kind of plain fighter
cos snipers can't or at least shouldn't be able to tank.
I reckon it should be left how it is but with one change,
make it so wimpy doesn't kick in til the end of a round
so both parties get attacks in and priority wouldn't be
a problem, it'd just determine who actually flees if both
are at max wimpy.
From: Skar
Tuesday, October 03 2000, 09:49AM
Yes, that's it exactly. Using max wimpy allows characters to wait out
their skill lag in safety. And that sucks.
If you inspire them, they calm. Max wimpy kicks in and they get to wait
out that skill lag too. I'm left having to spam headbutts with an 80 con,
because I can't spam my spells. With an 80 con, I'm just as likely to fall
on my face, so I get skill lag and I'm resting.
I'm of the opinion that you can spam flees if you need to get out of
a fight. Skill lag is there for a reason. Wait it out and then flee.
From: Birgitte
Tuesday, October 03 2000, 03:08PM
major problem: a sniper can't live through or calm an inspire. I suggest,
though I'm not sure this is possible, that the flee not go through till
what would be the beginning of the next round. So after the first round
it determines if anyone wimpied, and if they did, at the point fighting
WOULD have occured for the 2nd round, they flee. That gives time for a
offensive and both get their attacks. Or, rip wimpy and change inspire
because inspire is going to become the #1 used skill if you rip wimpy,
I guarentee it. :) Stoneskin, inspire, firestorm, you win. Not very
hard or fun for either side in my opinon.
- Birgitte, the flightly sniper
From: Scream
Wednesday, October 04 2000, 04:21AM
I think that a sniper should be a skill chara, so remove wimpy.
Most people now are just gonna set new triggers, so you backstab
and flee with one command, think this will hurt the people
who dont use zmuds etc. And Birgitte nobody uses stoneskin,
it just pure sucks for its mana cost and its drawbacks.
another thing most snipers are not pure ones anyway
cause they wanna heal so most can calm.
I have seen snipers live through inspires while fighting a
chant vina vant dyn ex or con person. And perhaps they might wanna
change their weapon to a gae-bolg to get out of inspire,
get rid of them katars :P
From: Solomon
Wednesday, October 04 2000, 10:47AM
What would be the repurcussions if your wimpy didn't kick in until your
skill lag cleared? You kick, your skill lag expires, then your wimpy
kicks in and you flee?
From: Fuego
Wednesday, October 04 2000, 02:16PM
You'll rarely find me posint or appending on this board due to the fac
fact- that i'm a lazy bum... but when i read this post, i disagreed with
everything skar had said. If the wimpy was removed we would only be makin
mages more powerful then they already are. They have the most deadly
attack in the game, a worse for wear stun. You want to stop a person
from fleeing from you? wall him in or bind him... removing the wimpy
would just be too devastating...
-sucks at writing on these boards, which is why he rarely does it-
-Fuego Inferno
From: Kintare
Wednesday, October 04 2000, 03:06PM
Fuego is right about mages...what's wrong with binding a dex fighter?
And as far as fighters go...well, instead of yanking wimpy why not give
fighters a defense similar to bind? Such as a headlock skill or somesuch
which keeps the target from leaving the room so long as the person using
the skill stays there as well? And like bind, the flee-er may have a
chance to break the lock, depending on str or whatnot.
Kintare
From: Craven
Wednesday, October 04 2000, 09:19PM
from what you posted scream, its obvious you have no real
clue in pk. If you take out wimpy in pk, I guarentee that
without serious other changes sniper will die about 100% of
the time. There is a key to every character. Fighters tank.
Charmies tank for mages. Snipers do NOT tank. End of story.
From: Darkheart
Wednesday, October 04 2000, 09:40PM
hrm
From: Darkheart
Wednesday, October 04 2000, 09:41PM
Okay, my third try.
Max wimpy is annoying when you are lagged, and get that "opp
attacks, you type in a spell during lag, round goes by with
opponent fleeing, and your command goes through and hits thin
air." Other than that, it's all about being careful and conservative
about using mana.
Skills such as throw or shoot won't waste bullets into thin air,
and other skills don't even have skill lag when 'aired,' which imho
makes that cheap quake-doom-style 'sitting around in a corner waiting
for ppl to appear in front of you.' Currently snipers are the
only chars that can prevent others from doing this nearly all the time,
which adds to their power, but to change max wimpy without changing
this 'sit around spam,' pk's just gonna be defensive really.
As far as walking into a room and spelling, that can be taken care of
by a set of triggers or scripts, if you so bother. If the opponent is
out of their lag by the time you enter, tough luck, that's the advantage
of having initiated the round. But if they max wimpy'd out of something
you initiated, chances are that they won't be out of skill lag, spell lag,
or won't be there at all. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out
what to code for in order to prevent things from airing, but it would
be a lot easier if non-targetted spells, unless they are area, won't draw
mana or cause spell lag unless it hits something.
DH
From: Miyamoto
Saturday, October 07 2000, 12:44AM
I've felt for a long time that wimpy shouldn't go off until the end
of the round. Imagine how amusing it would be to watch to people who
were max wimpy fighting eachother. Both swing and then at the end of
the round both of them flee in random directions.
In fact, as far as mobkill goes, I think this change would make using
wimpy a lot less frustrating when trying to take on a harder mob than
you.
I could see dropping max wimpy down to 50% of max hps, but then, like
others have said, inspire is going to be just that much worse. When
I fight an inspirer I'm not using max wimpy for offensive purposes, I'm
using it for defensive purposes (maybe I can get a hit in and flee before
I get inspired and die).
From: Mac
Saturday, October 07 2000, 03:12PM
No, you just need a check to see if the person's still
fighting before making them flee.
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