PKOK

Posted by Poetry on 05/01

From: Huginn Friday, April 28, 05:23PM We thought of this. If you have someone's owned item in your possesion, then (assuming you're not more than 10 levels +/-) the owner of that item can choose to accept and attack you. It won't matter that you're not accepting or are rejecting them, the attack with still go through. Note that it's one sided.. if you have someone's owned item, both of you would need to accept for you to attack them. Huginn

From: Tirasala Friday, April 28, 11:20PM That's a pretty good fix for looting, but what about healing? Can players who aren't enabled vs a particular character still heal someone fighting him/her? There's no way to tell whether or not someone is accepting or not other than attacking, so there's no way to even keep track of violations, is this is even going to be a rule any more. I sure hope it is, because otherwise every pkiller will run around with a reject all healer and the game will be no fun. PKOK is going to be the death of all us rampaging evil pkillers, because all the whiners will just reject us, and we'll no doubt kill eachother off until some righteous indignant level 50 finally gets up the guts to go around and slaughter all the half eq-ed evil guys. What's an evil, despised, hunted pyrat to do? Tirasala, the last Dred Pyrat, Lord of the Oshan See

From: Guelah Saturday, April 29, 12:35AM Get drunk, Tira... Guelah O'Connor, Leader of the Pack(rats)

From: Kingfisher Saturday, April 29, 10:14AM Tirasala, it might be the death of 'all you rampaging evil pkillers', but it could be the life of all the role-playing pkillers. Is it such a bad thing that you won't be able to attack those who prefer not to be attacked? What we get is free choice. Now pkill is more open and inviting, possibly encouraging more people to join pkill. And those who enjoys being jumped can set their pkok for that, and vice versa. On the point of multiing : That won't be possible unless you set your pkok all the time, and one would suspect you got the hint when you have died 4 times in a row.

From: Skar Saturday, April 29, 03:29PM Perhaps healers should automatically pkok everyone on the list of the person they are healing, but only for 3 or 4 ticks. That way, if the healer is interfering in a current battle, you can just backstab them or something, like you do now, but they wouldn't be vulnerable for the full 10 ticks. As for looting, if I have an owned item on my person or in my house, I should be vulnerable to that person. Huginn's response didn't indicate whether housing was considered or not.

From: Stain Saturday, April 29, 07:26PM I do not see how duels alone would be 'the life' of an rp killer, seems better for RP when you actually have to take responsibility for your actions. Flea/D'assen (or however you spell it) type characters will be the ones that benifit the most here, their actions meaning very little, since they can just reject whoever they please. As is, there are people that will attack you just for being around to attack (halo) but unless your pretty active, talk a lot of smack, or constantly fight dirty, people don't really target you a whole lot. I don't see what the problem with the current system is. Looks more like, to me, that people who get discouraged easily and lazy new killers have convinced immorts with thier whining that deviding the mud even more and making it safer to bust out with the "rabbit punch" is a good idea. When I first enabled I died a whole lot.. well, still do, actually, but now I am on the winning side of the death info quite a bit, too. Ronnie and the Dark Enforcers straight beat me down, at same levs, gang-bang style, and with me down 8 or more levels on them as well, but i'm glad it happened like that. Pk isn't something that you just get good at over night, and it's like they say, "what dosn't kill you makes you stronger". I learned a lot quicker that way, and guess what? My next char was actually pretty succesful. When I think back, I can see that if I hadn't said such hostile and aggressive things, and made threats like I did against people who were better/higher lev than I was I wouldn't have been treated like that. My whole point is that it isn't the system, or the sick n twisted evil guys that make pk trouble, YOU pretty well decide how your pk career is gonna be. Frustrating to see so much work being put into pkok when other stuff that is actually broken could be fixed instead.

From: Archmage Saturday, April 29, 11:04PM Back on the topic of stealing, what if say CharA stole something from Charb, but CharA then gives the item to a CharC. What would the situation be now? Also, what if CharC steals CharB's item from CharA...What then? Archmage

From: Tirasala Saturday, April 29, 11:35PM This is for Kingfisher and all other such confused players: It's ALL role-playing! PKOK will actually cut down on how you can integrate RP and PK. Take the specific example of a pirate. Pirates make their living by attacking and looting people that do not want to be attacked and looted. Pirates don't attack huge groups of powerful fighting men, they go for the rich, the weak, and the lonely. Under PKOK many, if not all, of the weak and lonely pkillers will only turn pkill on for duels and 'friendly' fights. The days of hiding in safe rooms and watching the death infos to find out who's worth attacking and who's not will be gone, because you will never be able to tell who you can attack and who you can't. To expand the problem, take the example of a knight. What good is a knight if he can't go out and right wrongs when he sees them. If someone complains of foul play enough, it used to be that a bunch of righteous pkillers would get together, hunt down the offender, and smack him around for a while. Believe me, I speak from personal experience. But say I find out that a certain pkiller has me accepted. I go out, and I kick him around for a while, multi him a few times, loot his old SSS, and then invis his corpse. Under the all or nothing system, I'd get stomped on all over the MUD. But what if I think ahead and reject all but this one pkiller that I decide to pick on. Where are the consequences for my actions? Where are his friends and clanmates? They certainly won't be beating me up for messing with their friend, that's for certain. So where's the need to develope friends, to RP with any sort of charisma? Some players are good enough that they don't need allies, but weak fighters can make more powerful friends, if they ACT friendly. No need for that any more, just turn pkill off until you find someone you want to stomp. PKOK is a bad idea. It won't make roleplaying any easier, it'll make it harder. Tira

From: Larnoc Sunday, April 30, 01:31AM Hmm I actually agree with Poetry and Tirasala here... wierd. I'm one of the types of pkiller that should probably be looking forward to this whole pkok thing, but it's just going to make it harder to rp in some ways, whereas before you could always rely on a knight or somesuch other to come to your aid should you get attacked, now there is just going to be no jumping .. ? It's going to make it too safe to be in pk to be an as much fun as it used to be. -Larnoc (the rambling Herm)

From: Kerstin Sunday, April 30, 03:19AM Why doesn't everyone wait until it goes in before you pass judgement on it?

From: Kingfisher Sunday, April 30, 03:57AM No, Tiralasa, it is all about FUN. Weird how everyone who jumps people at random all the time hides behind the word "role-play". I agree, that is roleplay too, but rp is many things. And since your style of rp apparently prevents some people from having fun, why not be happy about pkok, which will ensure that those you fight will have fun doing it (otherwise they likely wouldn't have accepted you). With pkok you allow everyone to play the type of pkill they prefer, where they have the most fun. Can hardly see a problem in that.

From: Kundry Sunday, April 30, 04:15AM After reading through all this, like Larnoc I'm surprised that I agree with Tira. Seems to me a better idea all round might actually be LootOK and/or MultiOK. Guess I'll just see what it looks like when it goes in. Kundry

From: Tirasala Sunday, April 30, 04:45AM First off, when did I ever say that Legend is anything but fun? Anyway, Kingfisher, I don't understand what you mean about hiding behind role-play? If you don't understand why someone killed you, and s/he responds that it's his or her RP to do so, who are you to deride them for it? I've met many a psychopath on Legend, as well as many who simply enjoy the thrill of the hunt and the rush of the kill. What's wrong with that kind of an RP? As to preventing people from having fun, I don't see why you think 'my' style of RP would do that. I like to think that every character that hunts me down for some transgression realizes that they're just playing a game and has some fun with it. If I have personally offended any real people out there, they've never said anything to me. On the contrary, I've had very pleasant OOC discussions with characters who proclaim to hate my guts. Anyone who can't take a pkill or 12 in stride and have fun reacting to it should really take a step back from the game and think about what they're doing for a little while. I like to think that players have lots of fun using their characters to hunt me across the world and kick me around a bit. I know that I, as a player, enjoy both hunting and being hunted, killing and being killed. If i actually have made the game unpleasant for any of you real people out there then I, as a RL person, do apologize. I was just having some fun. Of course, barring a response from the entire MUD that I suck and should be sitebanned, I will continue to harass, loot, and kill all you helpless weaklings out there, cause it's fun! Tira

From: Stain Sunday, April 30, 05:36AM I don't usually agree with Tirasala, either, but I like what she(?) has got to say here. I always thought rp spawned from rp was the most enjoyable part of pkill. Only time I ever got involved with the planned sorta thing was when I wanted a coupon or something, not for fun. The thing I am having trouble understanding is why these people whos fun is ruined by agg pkers enabled in the first place. I had thought PK stood for "(P)layer (K)illing". What these people should be asking for instead is some kind of arena or something where you can duel other players while in that area even if your not enabled. I see pkok as, basicly, betraying the most simple point and goal in unlock w open w w close e lock e the game. I don't worry about weather someone 'wants' to

From: Stain Sunday, April 30, 06:23AM bleh.. was interupted there (peer self) anyway, what I was trying to say is that I see pkill and mobkill as pretty much the same thing, only differance is that instead of being a challenge because they are so much more powerful than I am, pkillers actually use strategy. Basicly an agg mob that hunts and thinks. Another level of mobkill, or something. The thing that keeps me from becoming bored of it all, like I do repeatedly killing the same mobs for xp and such is the drama. Take away the spontinaity (yes, my spelling is terrible :P) and mystery, you take away the excitement, too, and that prevents me from having fun. No disrespect intended to any players, I am talking about the basic combat system/game when I say your all just a bunch of agg hunter mobs. Point i'm trying to get across here is that saying pkok is the best thing for role play is just rediculous, since it will eliminate the very thing that has sparked all the rp I have ever been involved with.

From: Dimentia Sunday, April 30, 07:11AM I agree with Stain. My last pkiller was horrible, maybe only won one fight I got jumped at least 3 times a day and was the target of many harassment situations. But, I made a new pkiller and have learned

From: Dimentia Sunday, April 30, 07:16AM heh, sorry about that, as i was saying i have learned quite a bit from my past experiences. I may not win as much but once again, like Stain has said "what hasnt killed me only made me stronger". My appreciation for PK has grown and I enjoy being jumped/being the jumpee (if that makes sense). I dont get the same rush with an accepted duel as I get with a premeditated murder -cackle- I get with a premeditated duel -cackle-. So, I dont know if this append is even helping or making me look like a fool I just wanted to put in my two sense :) Dimentia Worsipp|er Of The Dark L ok, that sucked :)

From: Fraegis Sunday, April 30, 08:34AM Nothing wrong with jumping others, nothing wrong in not wanting to be jumped either. There are several ways to use pkill, and pkok will ensure that people can use pkill the way they like it. I think it is neat if you really like being jumped/jumping people, but now you can be certain that those you jump also have fun with the fight. I fail to see any problem in that. My will be done, Fraegis

From: Huginn Sunday, April 30, 10:46AM To answer Archmage's questions.. 1) if charA stole from charB, A won't be able to give to CharC unless B & C accept each other. 2) if charC can steal from CharA is both accept each other and so B's item could be stolen from A. In both cases, if B's item is somehow transferred, it retains its ownership (CharB) and the vunerability follows the possesion of the item. If the item is in a house, attacks aren't possible, but you can always break in and pick up the item (obviously you don't need to steal it if its yours, get will work) Huginn

From: Huginn Sunday, April 30, 10:50AM Thanks to the folks who are willing to try this new system before condeming it. To the other side of the room, I'll suggest all you crazed killers out there accept all and then build up your reject lists with those that you feel aren't acting in your spirit of pkill. Personally, if I can get up the courage to face you killers, I'll probably be willing to do the same unless I go somewhere like SL/PD. :-) And for those that are suggesting RP == duel, I think you're avoiding the point. I would expect that the "good" rpers and "evil" rpers will meet and broadly decide what wars they want to have possible... then for the next X time (weeks, months etc) they'll fight those wars and rp as they do. If someone is being a jerk then they get kicked out of the game.. The problem with this kind of game is that there have been too few consequences for poor behavior. Although some of you insist that posses form for such things, those are much rarer and ineffective than claimed. If you aren't a complete novice, its almost always possible to get away and rent. Lame, but possible. Now the consequence of being truly (not rp) unpleasant is that you limit your pool of targets, let's see if that makes a difference. Huginn

From: Zalbag Sunday, April 30, 05:28PM I frankly believe I will lose the desire to pkill when pkok comes in It will be too mindless, the fun is preparing for the jump and catching your opponent off guard, because with pkok, that person will know who he has accept and who he has to look out for, what fun is that? Also in my opinion the majority of people who want pkok are people who are too lazy to build a pkiller up from scratch and just want to use some random character that wasn't ever enabled. If you want people to use these characters in a way to PK then why not implement an arena of sor (sorts). I don't know, that idea isn't full-proof, but the reason I have stayed on this mud for so long is because of the unique pk system available here as well as the friends, but without the pk system I like, where does that leave me? going afk a lot and chatting to people I tested it during April Fools and I wasnt too impressed with people healing each other who werent even accept all. Also i think pkok weakens the advantage most pkill characters have Create mages cant walk into a room and wall someone but to find out that person took off accept all. Or snipers who like to aim up to snipe I don't know, I just despise this idea. -shrug- sue me.

From: Tirasala Sunday, April 30, 11:18PM Huginn, I am not completely condeming PKOK, I just think that there are some issues with it that have not yet been addressed. If the imms have actually thought of all the potential problems i've brought up with the mechanics of healing, pkill interference, etc. then someone let me know so that I can shut up! As to your suggestions on how RP will evolve in PKill, i must say this: I don't like planned RP skits. If I want to have a battle with someone, I go over and pick a fight with them, in character. An example is the little tiff that my Pyrats had with the Castellano Mafia. There was no OOC planning, no discussion of rules or boundaries. One day, someone killed someone else, then there was a huge sequence of retaliation and revenge. That is a good RP-PK mix. It wasn't duels staged for the rest of the MUD or anything like that. We didn't know how it would end, or even what the next move would be. That's why it was so much fun. And that's going to die if people can turn PK on and off. Maybe something new and different will come up in it's place, who knows? I don't think so Tirasala, bleh bleh bleh

From: Testboy Monday, May 01, 12:22PM Huginn suggested all us crazed killers accept all then build up our reject list.. Bad idea, we tried that out for April 1st. A bunch of people can jump you and you can't even get help from clan members with you in the room, this still needs to be addressed.