Further balance discussion, etc

Posted by Rufus on 01/17

From: Rufus Wednesday, January 12, 12:58AM Testmud up with the following changes: Sliding-scale based damroll-eq. Shorter times on para warcry/backstab/wfw/stunning headbutt Rewrite of dispel magic and how it works with magic sink few other changes, I'm not sure what. note: These changes ARE NOT permanent, I'm merely -testing- them. Feel free to log on and PK or whatever though. I also cannot guarantee the stability of the testmud. -Ruf

From: Rufus Wednesday, January 12, 01:10AM Erg, it's up on this IP (mud.legendmud.org) port 5150. -Ruf

From: Infidel Wednesday, January 12, 12:23PM In response to the topics listed on that page: - Damroll, while low strength characters can get themselves 20-30 dam without suffering too much in other stats, they're still limited by weapon damage. That and another 20 or so damroll on a str fighter makes this a non-issue IMO. Personally I'd like more +hit and +dam on items that are not also +dex or +strength. I have a lot of rent free and nothing to spend it on. A con vs str fighter is pretty equal at the moment but dex gets trashed by both of them. Could be that the difference between low and high con hps is too great (which would also mean str does too much damage) or the affect of dex in reducing damage needs tweaking, after all, just about everyone has -100 AC. Hmm, no, I changed my mind, I think the affect of sitting and stunned is too great, it seems everything else has compensated for that. Con and strength are pretty pathetic generally versus standing targets. That could be improved if stunned / sitting wasn't so nasty. It should be adjusted so the improvement vs standing isn't quite as much as the reduction vs sitting/stunned so Dex will gain a little out of it. O'course without really knowing how things work I'm just guessing really. I'm not sure if there's a damage bonus on sitting/stunned or if you just land more hits. - Augment, I don't think it's too out of whack as it is.. Perhaps a minor reduction, but then even if it healed 200 hps for 60 spirit I wouldn't use one. I'm too macho! :) - Magic sink, I'd like not only that to be mind based alone but every other spell too, at least til something replaces cast level. For that I'd suggest a training system, not unlike basing it on useage but without the monotony since that would most likely adjust slowly over time and probably promote bot useage.. I'd rather be able to adjust my characters specialties within 10 minutes or so more directly. Perhaps through a mob, which would cost money or simply practicing without actually practicising. Ie. a new command, "prac strength spell" and it moves up the list.. Easier to implement and better for the players IMO. - Scaling backstab damage by level I agree with, but there's more to it. If you backstab a low con character, they lose 1/5th their hps compared with 1/10th of a con fighter. Seems to me that damage from every skill, spell and even mob act needs to be adjusted depending on the targets stats to really balance things out. - Dispell is a tricky one, if it were eaten like any other spell it would mean high mind mages wouldn't have to worry about it at all since most dispel attempts would come from bows, thrown vials and a certain weapon. My only suggestion, and I'm not even really satisfied with it is to make the chance of dispelling constant but to randomize what is dispelled, kinda like how flame spells damage eq. If cast by an item, go through each spell and give it a 50% chance of being dispelled, if cast by a person use the current system. - Luck, I don't know what to say.. I've been pushing for the reduction of its effect in pk for so long but now when it comes to the details, it would be quite easy to make pk boring if not done right. I'm not sure what it is currently but I'd probably give para backstabs 3 rounds to allow for a 2nd backstab but no more unless they para again. Can't remove the luck factor in snipers til they can hold their own, I'd like to see differences in common skills between hometowns, kick for example could give londoners/limans a single round lag only they can't use 'kick' again for 2 rounds, I guess the old martial arts skill could be used as a flag for this to enhance some basic skills. A trip skill, yes it would duplicate bash to some degree apart from the skill lag but would be much better suited to dex combined with kick. Stagger/wfw, perhaps replace these with a 1 tick disorient? I'd probably give warcry and choke 2 min 3 max, designed to be last resort skills only that rarely go off but may turn a fight when you're about to die. The luck factor remains but would rarely help. My main gripe still remains that a lot of skills totally backfire when they fail and you often have no choice but to use them in both pkill and mobkill, eg. bash should do minimal damage and not send the basher on his butt when it fails. - Liman's might like a heavier/higher damage make staff? ------- Something more radical that I've brought up in the past and I doubt it'll be considered but it could well make this whole balancing thing easier as a side effect. The concept of Str/Con/Dex weapons and fighters should be dumped, Instead use the one set of proficiencies. Players would then only be limited in weapon choice by the weight of the weapon. Dex would determine the # of attacks with a weapon. Strength could determine damroll but doesn't need to, being able to wield heavier more damaging weapons could take care of that. Con as it is now would be for hps, Perc for hitroll. Change all fight skills to use 2 or more stats and you wouldn't NEED close to 100 of any particular stat.

From: Beam Thursday, January 13, 10:08AM I must say Rufus you surprise me sometimes. I don't always like what you do, but I think it's commenable that your making a real effort here. Course it took some prodding, but that's o.k. Sometimes imms say they are danged if they do and danged if they don't so I just wanted to say thanks for the effort. On a side note an imm quit on another mud just recently cuz they made changes, and a bunch of ppl complained, then they changed it back and even more ppl complained. Think imms have to realize this is natural. As long as it isn't same ppl complaining. As for Infidel's post: I think the losing fight proficiencies is the most interesting. I think the biggest obstacle to balance came when we went away from basing everything on dex. It made it a rock paper scissors thing, with con ppl having hp, dex being dodgy and str not being able to hit. I think theres some problems in this that just make it not so fun. and if you are able to make a good char, then its out of balance. Part of this stems from being classless I think. Like to see opinions on this. peace

From: Rufus Thursday, January 13, 01:04PM I've changed the pk type to chaos, so anyone can try it out. -Ruf

From: Beam Thursday, January 13, 03:56PM Hrm, could you make the tara wells 100% heal on the test mud also? Not for strategy of course, just so we can test.

From: Rosette Thursday, January 13, 09:12PM I really liked the idea of making Limans excel as bards. However, with the current bardic skills, you couldn't be viable as a bard with only weak surgery and druidic skills on the side. Most bardic skills on work as an accesory to other more useful skills, and some, like lullaby (even with 100 spirit) are all but useless. It would make bards more viable if there were more bardic skills--incuding some healing and some fighting skills. I suggest a way of playing music that would heal (if it worked on everyone i the room--mobs included, this would add an interesting dimension to tactic and perhaps even bless. An attack similar to blast, or like the wail that some mobs have would also be good. Perhaps warcry could simply be revamped as a skill using prestige and spirit. And according to the old adage, 'mus tames the wild beast', there could be a charm skill which would allow bard to charm animal mobs. And since well-chosen words can cut deeper than any sword, there might be a damage-inflicting skill, 'harangue' which pits the bard's mind versus the opponents spirit. Although creating a new 'class' may be more work than you intend, I believe that more bardic skills would greatly enhance the mud. Rosette Milano

From: Infidel Friday, January 14, 03:21AM

From: Rufus Monday, January 17, 12:02AM Testmud has been taken down, thanks for participating. -Ruf